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so

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[Music]

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you're in the paracast

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the gold standard of paranormal radio

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and now

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so i think chris and i are both looking

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forward to the end of 2015. it was a

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difficult year for a lot of us but more

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so for chris because of unfortunately

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the untimely passing of his brother and

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the fact that you briefly

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flat-lined basically right

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yeah i hadn't really

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mentioned that before

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on the show but

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i battled uh respiratory i think a

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respiratory virus the doctors really

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don't know what it is i'm pretty sure i

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caught it

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seven years ago up at the um

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zuni reservation at the chalico ceremony

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it was a ceremonial room 80 plus degrees

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little babies sick everybody was sick

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it was five below outside the steam was

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boiling out of the room and the door

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opened and

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it was just a germ

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there was primordial bugs in there that

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i don't think i've ever left zuni and

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you know i i got sick for three months

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uh after that and it went through

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three

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you know antibiotic things and it never

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really did

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it just kind of faded away and i i just

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i never really felt like i had kicked it

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it just kind of went dormant

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and then this last last year actually it

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started at the ufo congress i spent

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four hours uh celebrating the eb awards

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uh win by by ron james and jennifer

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stein and i was in this smokey

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casino and i'd quit smoking for

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two months and then right after that

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that respiratory thing came back with a

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vengeance and

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when i went up to my my brother's uh

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memorial the first week of may

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i really shouldn't have gone i had a

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speaking engagement at uh adam state

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college and i was

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bringing the gear to the new base

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station location so i i just couldn't

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cancel plus you know my brother's

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memorial was going on up there and crest

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stone and so i went up to 9000 feet and

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my o2 saturation level was

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well the doctors told me later that i

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shouldn't have been conscious that i was

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in the

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minimum of 90.

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and at one point

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the day before

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my speaking engagement

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my lungs

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you know for a fifth time actually

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locked up and i was unable to get any

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slack to get the albuterol in me and i

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died i was out for

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they don't really know but somewhere

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around two to five minutes and it's just

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a miracle that i survived the mts

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said i was blue and my lips were black

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and they thought the head emts said look

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like i've been buried for three days

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and they started working on me they

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didn't think they were gonna bring me

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back

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and i woke up and started flailing and

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they tried to keep me down and i was

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gonna punch them out if they didn't let

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me sit up and

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and they were just amazed that i uh i

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survived and uh

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i've been having you know some

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weird headaches and you know i think

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you know some

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kind of strange lingering after effects

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from it uh weird dreams now i just

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really notice a big difference

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low-grade headache that almost never

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goes away it's always there and it's

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just been a really rough year i mean

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it's

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what bums me out the most is you know

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when i came to

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and they said you were dead i thought

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well

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where was my tunnel of light and you

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know where was my brother uh

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with a cold one saying come on bro let's

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party you know i

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i had none of that you don't then recall

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anything no i don't i just went black

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and the next thing i know uh there was

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light light in my eye

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a friend was massaging my feet and

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another friend was uh he had been trying

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to you know resuscitate me you know with

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mouth to mouth and and

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it was like it was like instantaneous

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you know i went out and then i came back

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and and there were several minutes there

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where i was gone and i'm thinking to

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myself you know all these people daniel

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brinkley and all these people with these

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nde experiences and stuff and they write

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books and have whole careers man i got i

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got burned

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you know i died and then have nothing to

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report

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does it make you more skeptical

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of people who report

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remembering something when they were

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dead no

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no it doesn't you know one of the things

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that that i kind of

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reconciled the experience uh with was

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was the fact that obviously i wasn't

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meant to go and uh

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so i guess uh the universe didn't send

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me any temptation to linger longer and

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maybe permanently in that particular

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state

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so it it doesn't really make me more

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skeptical i i

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i could see the potential of having

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a tunnel of light the tunnel of light i

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experienced was a flashlight trying to

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ascertain if my pupils would

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would pin if they put light in them

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uh so that was my tunnel of light was a

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pen light in my eyes um

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no it doesn't make me more skeptical

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it makes me a little bit more uh

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circumspect about uh you know the

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sanctity of you know conscious uh life

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and and

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i don't plan on traveling up to ten

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thousand feet when i'm i'm barely

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getting enough saturation in my lungs to

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be conscious

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uh that was not a good decision on my

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part but you know i rolled the dice and

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almost lost and broke broke even on the

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craps table

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with a little bit of a downside with the

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uh with the you know new

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kind of types of weird kind of center of

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my brain

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you know just super low grade

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i don't know just kind of a

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it's not really a headache it's just

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it's just kind of a low throbbing that i

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can feel

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um but since then you know i've been

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i've been doing good and i'm really

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looking forward to a productive new year

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i'm i've got lots of plans

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um obviously the the san luis valley

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camera project is now going to be super

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front burner for the next couple of

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couple three months i really need to get

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this going

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and dovetail efforts with uh with leslie

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keane and mark rodger possibly and and

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uh and douglas trumbull and mark antonio

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i'm really excited about

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the progress that that seems to be being

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made in in people's

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uh approaches to taking

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you know scientific uh ufology to the

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next level

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i really have a sense that that really

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is going to be

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unless this happens um i i really see

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the field

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dying with the generation of

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conference attendees that are averaging

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up there in the 60s and 70s now

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unless something happens that attracts

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new blood to the field

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uh there is not going to be a field i

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think there's going to be a lot of

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pop culture uh

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assumptions going on and

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and uh and more and more people are

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going to you know become interested in

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the field i think with the new x-files

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reboot

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and i think it's going to unfortunately

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be totally based on an erroneous pop

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culture perception of

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the phenomenon and it's it's not going

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to do the field of scientific ufology

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one bit of good to have a lot of

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uneducated people

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uh allowing the media and the internet

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to be their educational process when it

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comes to

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um you know getting up to speed on what

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this whole

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uh mystery is about and you know we're

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going to talk i'm sure with micah today

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about that but but i really i feel that

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unless something happens in these next

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two years uh

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greg bishop's uh

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idealized view of the thing being

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totally stripped away and having to

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start from scratch i think that's going

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to be the uh

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you know the

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the end result if uh if these uh new

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hard data

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monitoring efforts don't pan out so

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i'm going to make my

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best efforts to to get this thing to the

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next level and and and i'm a team player

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and i really would like to uh to be

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involved and have others involved in and

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network this whole thing properly

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now as chris mentioned we have micah

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hanks

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waiting in the wings to talk about the

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situation we're going to talk about the

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state of paranormal research we're going

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to talk about

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what can be done to keep things going

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what can be done to attract younger

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people not just to look at it as pop

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culture like we look at star wars the

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new star wars film is pop culture

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nothing to take seriously and they don't

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take it seriously they don't become the

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new generation of ufo and paranormal

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researchers and thus things get a lot

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worse than they are now just briefly we

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have a few seconds left in this segment

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did you enjoy the new star wars film i

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did you know it's it was very

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predictable you know it was real obvious

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i think the plot twists were were pretty

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uh they telegraphed them uh a little bit

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too much

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the of course the special effects were

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just jaw dropping i wanted to see it in

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3d but i i the timing of uh you know the

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3d showings didn't

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conform to you know my trip down to

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phoenix so i saw it in just a standard

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standard 2d but

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i did like it i thought

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i thought

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the new characters have potential and

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and it was fun seeing carrie fisher and

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harrison ford and you know a brief uh

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you know look at mark hamill uh we're

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not going to repeat what mark hamill

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said in the film no we won't absolutely

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no no we don't want to be the spoiler

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about which character will not be in

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episode 8. we've got micah hanks coming

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along with gene and chris you're in the

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i know that a lot of our listeners are

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interested in ufos the issue of giants

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skeletons found in america paranormal

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investigations and what the top

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researchers think about such topics one

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online magazine has been presenting such

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00:10:17,509 --> 00:10:14,640
unusual information since 1985.

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send it to news at theparacast.com

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that's news at theparacast.com

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00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:14,560
and don't forget to visit our famous

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micah hanks the graelian report returns

382
00:14:26,790 --> 00:14:25,279
to the power cast we're going to do kind

383
00:14:28,870 --> 00:14:26,800
of a year ender

384
00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:28,880
a year beginner

385
00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:31,279
look at the state of ufo and paranormal

386
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research

387
00:14:38,389 --> 00:14:36,160
but now before we do anything else micah

388
00:14:39,269 --> 00:14:38,399
i understand you did see

389
00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:39,279
or

390
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:41,040
saw it you did

391
00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:42,480
star wars

392
00:14:47,189 --> 00:14:45,040
the force awakening and all that stuff

393
00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:47,199
what was your take

394
00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:48,880
good it was

395
00:14:53,430 --> 00:14:51,519
it was it was a great film understand

396
00:14:56,310 --> 00:14:53,440
folks if you haven't seen star wars the

397
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:56,320
force awakens yoda is already dead

398
00:14:59,750 --> 00:14:58,399
several episodes earlier he is not in

399
00:15:03,030 --> 00:14:59,760
this film

400
00:15:04,389 --> 00:15:03,040
like that

401
00:15:05,829 --> 00:15:04,399
right

402
00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:05,839
yeah so that doesn't qualify as a

403
00:15:09,189 --> 00:15:07,920
spoiler you know that's the big thing

404
00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:09,199
these days is

405
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:11,040
uh in addition to the

406
00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:12,959
the interest and the and the uh you know

407
00:15:17,110 --> 00:15:15,279
the fandom uh you know the passion for

408
00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:17,120
science fiction that we have and it's

409
00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:18,480
important and we can look at why here in

410
00:15:23,590 --> 00:15:20,639
a moment but but i'll say this there's

411
00:15:25,269 --> 00:15:23,600
also an increasing concern among fandom

412
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:25,279
about the release of spoilers and i

413
00:15:28,629 --> 00:15:26,480
think that it's really been heightened

414
00:15:29,829 --> 00:15:28,639
by social media back in the old days you

415
00:15:31,590 --> 00:15:29,839
know you could choose whether you went

416
00:15:33,829 --> 00:15:31,600
to the store and you know bought a copy

417
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:33,839
of a magazine or you know a newspaper

418
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:35,040
and you know if you saw a headline you

419
00:15:37,829 --> 00:15:36,160
could choose more or less whether you

420
00:15:39,509 --> 00:15:37,839
wanted to read that but in this internet

421
00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:39,519
day and age there's stuff coming down

422
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:40,880
your twitter feed there's stuff coming

423
00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:42,560
up on facebook stuff coming up in your

424
00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:44,720
email it's much more easy to be

425
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:46,880
accidentally exposed to the uh the

426
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:48,959
dreaded spoilers so uh you know we can

427
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:50,639
stay in the no spoiler zone and i can

428
00:15:54,230 --> 00:15:52,000
still maintain it was

429
00:15:55,509 --> 00:15:54,240
a really good film and for me personally

430
00:15:57,509 --> 00:15:55,519
i thought it was

431
00:15:59,269 --> 00:15:57,519
obviously better than the the prequels

432
00:16:01,430 --> 00:15:59,279
uh at least as good as the original

433
00:16:03,590 --> 00:16:01,440
three in a modern context you know with

434
00:16:05,350 --> 00:16:03,600
all the the modern special effects uh it

435
00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:05,360
wasn't supposed to have as much cgi and

436
00:16:08,629 --> 00:16:06,880
yet i thought it had more probably than

437
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:08,639
it needed but then again you're just

438
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:09,839
going to have that in movies today but

439
00:16:12,310 --> 00:16:11,279
on on the whole it was a really great

440
00:16:14,069 --> 00:16:12,320
film

441
00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:14,079
now we saw the

442
00:16:19,509 --> 00:16:17,120
3d version grayson and i and the reason

443
00:16:22,230 --> 00:16:19,519
was kind of the same

444
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:22,240
reason that chris didn't which is we

445
00:16:26,389 --> 00:16:24,639
wanted to see the film and the one

446
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:26,399
screen that was available was the 3d

447
00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:29,360
there was only 42 percent of the seats

448
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:30,560
were filled they give you all that

449
00:16:35,910 --> 00:16:32,560
information before you enter

450
00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:35,920
and the next non-3d film was 40 minutes

451
00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:37,600
later and since it was grayson's street

452
00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:39,759
i said you want to do 3d the only thing

453
00:16:46,230 --> 00:16:42,800
is here to be blunt about it there's

454
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:46,240
nothing in the film that lives or dies

455
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:49,040
for the presence of 3d in my opinion

456
00:16:54,310 --> 00:16:50,959
whether or not you see it in 3d is your

457
00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:54,320
decision 3d tends to be a little dimmer

458
00:16:59,829 --> 00:16:56,720
the colors tend to be less vivid that's

459
00:17:01,829 --> 00:16:59,839
part of the process but otherwise

460
00:17:03,910 --> 00:17:01,839
don't worry about it i don't even think

461
00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:03,920
it's worth seeing in imax but it is a

462
00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:05,280
pretty good film

463
00:17:09,750 --> 00:17:07,439
there's nothing really unique there and

464
00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:09,760
the only thing close to a spoiler i'll

465
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:11,760
mention because everybody has said so

466
00:17:15,029 --> 00:17:12,640
already

467
00:17:17,429 --> 00:17:15,039
so cover your ears as a very minor

468
00:17:20,630 --> 00:17:17,439
spoiler and that is you know when you

469
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:20,640
look at star wars it's all basically the

470
00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:23,439
story of one family okay beginning with

471
00:17:28,549 --> 00:17:26,160
anakin skywalker and his

472
00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:28,559
son and daughter princess leia luke

473
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:31,200
skywalker and of course princess leia

474
00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:33,360
gets together with han solo

475
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:35,360
and the only thing we'll tell you

476
00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:36,080
is

477
00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:37,520
they have a son

478
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:39,840
that's all we'll say but this is a very

479
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:42,640
dysfunctional family you have to think

480
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:44,640
there's no peace for them i mean look at

481
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:47,440
it from beginning to end

482
00:17:50,870 --> 00:17:48,640
the father

483
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:50,880
the son the daughter

484
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:53,120
another generation

485
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:54,640
where are there good people of course

486
00:17:58,630 --> 00:17:56,640
there's a possibility there's another

487
00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:58,640
child involved but we don't know because

488
00:18:02,470 --> 00:18:00,960
we may not know that answer until the

489
00:18:04,390 --> 00:18:02,480
next film

490
00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:04,400
that's one of the new stars

491
00:18:08,310 --> 00:18:06,160
we don't know yet

492
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:08,320
yeah they're kind of remaining mum on

493
00:18:12,830 --> 00:18:10,400
a lot of that and uh you know i'll point

494
00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:12,840
out also with regard to that kind of

495
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:14,320
intergalactic uh

496
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:16,640
dysfunction that the family uh suffers

497
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:18,000
you know from generation to generation

498
00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:19,600
one question would be of course do the

499
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:21,520
midichlorians have anything

500
00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:23,280
to do with that because

501
00:18:28,789 --> 00:18:24,640
going back to the first films and we'll

502
00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:28,799
get you know slightly geek chic here uh

503
00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:30,720
there was a lot of speculation

504
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:32,640
as well and and some of this coming back

505
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:34,080
around to the new film as well but back

506
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:36,320
in the old ones uh really what was the

507
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:38,640
true origin of anakin skywalker it was

508
00:18:43,510 --> 00:18:41,200
it was very much a virgin birth

509
00:18:44,710 --> 00:18:43,520
and uh the idea had been that there may

510
00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:44,720
have been

511
00:18:48,789 --> 00:18:46,799
uh you know this this this pureness that

512
00:18:51,029 --> 00:18:48,799
the the the force was so strong and the

513
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:51,039
metaphorians actually led to the the

514
00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:52,799
pregnancy of uh what was his mother's

515
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:54,320
name padme i think

516
00:18:59,430 --> 00:18:57,600
maybe and um and uh then there's this

517
00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:59,440
other idea which seems far more likely

518
00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:01,360
because it seems to be inferred i think

519
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:03,280
in the i believe it was in the third

520
00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:04,960
prequel film

521
00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:06,960
that uh the sith themselves may have

522
00:19:11,669 --> 00:19:10,160
actually orchestrated uh the birth of of

523
00:19:13,990 --> 00:19:11,679
anakin skywalker and that all of this

524
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:14,000
would play into the midichlorians and

525
00:19:17,909 --> 00:19:16,160
the idea that really this one character

526
00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:17,919
would restore balance

527
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:19,600
to the force but if that's what the

528
00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:22,320
result of the ending of the sixth film

529
00:19:25,510 --> 00:19:24,240
which was actually the third film return

530
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:25,520
the jedi

531
00:19:28,390 --> 00:19:26,960
uh has where

532
00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:28,400
vader comes back

533
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:29,520
to the good

534
00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:31,520
uh into the force and he

535
00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:33,200
of course restores balance to the force

536
00:19:36,549 --> 00:19:34,880
and fulfills the prophecy if that is the

537
00:19:37,990 --> 00:19:36,559
case then what will happen in the next

538
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:38,000
three films that the rest if the

539
00:19:41,350 --> 00:19:39,840
restoration of the balance to the force

540
00:19:42,870 --> 00:19:41,360
occurred are we going to see another

541
00:19:43,830 --> 00:19:42,880
offset and i do know that they've said

542
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:43,840
of the

543
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:46,160
upcoming two films eight and nine that i

544
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:48,160
believe rian johnson will be directing

545
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:49,840
of course they they haven't released any

546
00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:51,360
information there's

547
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:53,520
very little more than pure unbridled

548
00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:54,960
speculation

549
00:19:57,909 --> 00:19:56,640
right now about those films but the one

550
00:19:59,590 --> 00:19:57,919
thing that people are saying is that

551
00:20:02,070 --> 00:19:59,600
it's going to get really weird they felt

552
00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:02,080
that this new film the force awakens

553
00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:03,760
would in a sense restore balance to the

554
00:20:09,350 --> 00:20:07,360
force after the the prequels which which

555
00:20:11,350 --> 00:20:09,360
really were kind of um

556
00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:11,360
regarded as being lackluster and

557
00:20:15,750 --> 00:20:13,600
certainly not living up to the potential

558
00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:15,760
of filmmaking with the kind of budget

559
00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:17,360
that lucas had with the making of those

560
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:19,120
films he went a little too far down the

561
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:20,640
rabbit hole when it came to the digital

562
00:20:25,110 --> 00:20:23,760
stuff and you know cg backgrounds and

563
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:25,120
and all of this i mean there wasn't

564
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:27,440
enough of that gritty grainy

565
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:29,919
realism that the first films possessed

566
00:20:33,029 --> 00:20:32,080
we got back to that with with episode

567
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:33,039
seven

568
00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:34,880
and that the next two films in addition

569
00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:37,280
to uh you know kind of continuing the

570
00:20:40,149 --> 00:20:38,320
story they're gonna be a bit of a

571
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:40,159
departure because with number seven

572
00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:42,480
restoring the balance among fandom and

573
00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:44,720
getting back to that kind of an old feel

574
00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:45,520
that

575
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:47,840
episodes four five and six have

576
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:49,520
uh now that we've kind of cleared our

577
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:51,679
throat so to speak i think of the uh

578
00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:53,280
oh which was it was one of the uk

579
00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:54,480
tabloids that

580
00:20:59,110 --> 00:20:56,400
referred to this process as the throat

581
00:21:01,590 --> 00:20:59,120
clearing made by disney new owners of

582
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:01,600
the franchise now episodes eight nine in

583
00:21:05,190 --> 00:21:04,080
addition to fulfilling this story it's

584
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:05,200
really going to get weird and they say

585
00:21:08,149 --> 00:21:06,720
it'll take place take things into a

586
00:21:09,909 --> 00:21:08,159
direction where

587
00:21:11,909 --> 00:21:09,919
nothing has ever been taken before but

588
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:11,919
but i'll close with this there was an

589
00:21:14,470 --> 00:21:13,600
interview that took place and i

590
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:14,480
mentioned this the other night on the

591
00:21:18,149 --> 00:21:16,400
grayling report podcast

592
00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:18,159
in no way a spoiler by the way this this

593
00:21:21,270 --> 00:21:19,520
is something that was mentioned back in

594
00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:21,280
the 1980s at the time of the release of

595
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:23,520
return of the jedi uh but the director

596
00:21:25,990 --> 00:21:25,200
of the film had said that uh talking

597
00:21:28,470 --> 00:21:26,000
with

598
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:28,480
george lucas about the continuation of

599
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:29,840
the series

600
00:21:33,510 --> 00:21:31,679
that he said we've we've made episodes

601
00:21:35,029 --> 00:21:33,520
four five and six eventually we'd go

602
00:21:36,789 --> 00:21:35,039
back and make one two and three and if

603
00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:36,799
seven eight and nine are made

604
00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:40,240
with the conclusion of the entire nine

605
00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:43,200
films that lucas envisions we would see

606
00:21:47,110 --> 00:21:45,760
the great intelligence is how he put it

607
00:21:49,029 --> 00:21:47,120
and the great intelligence being

608
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:49,039
whatever the mastermind working behind

609
00:21:52,789 --> 00:21:50,880
the scenes and controlling all the

610
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:52,799
elements of the dark side have been and

611
00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:54,320
whether of course the heroes can rise to

612
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:56,000
the occasion of truly restoring the

613
00:21:59,270 --> 00:21:58,000
balance to the force and reclaiming that

614
00:22:01,110 --> 00:21:59,280
from the empire in its many

615
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:01,120
manifestations so it'll be interesting

616
00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:02,799
to see where things go but it's probably

617
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:04,640
going to be an equal measure better than

618
00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:06,400
anything we've seen yet and yet unlike

619
00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:08,799
star wars that we've seen previously

620
00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:11,440
now just to point out as a reality check

621
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:13,600
george lucas had nothing to do with the

622
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:16,480
new film nor the subsequent films he

623
00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:18,880
sold the company lock stock and barrel

624
00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:20,880
on the other hand there was one

625
00:22:26,070 --> 00:22:22,480
interview where he

626
00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:26,080
expresses disappointment that j.j abrams

627
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:27,280
kind of

628
00:22:33,190 --> 00:22:30,320
did a bit of a retread of

629
00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:33,200
episode four in episode seven kind of

630
00:22:36,870 --> 00:22:35,200
covering similar ground

631
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:36,880
with different characters that's just a

632
00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:38,400
point to mention but we'll get into more

633
00:22:42,070 --> 00:22:40,320
of that in a moment we've got micah

634
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:42,080
hanks joining us with gene and chris

635
00:22:53,470 --> 00:22:52,549
thank you for listening to gcn

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[Applause]

729
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this is marie 800-831-0771 jones the

730
00:27:12,470 --> 00:27:09,840
author of this book is from the future

731
00:27:20,549 --> 00:27:12,480
and you are listening to the paracast

732
00:27:25,830 --> 00:27:23,510
now we would be remiss in our duty not

733
00:27:28,750 --> 00:27:25,840
to mention the power cast plus go to

734
00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:28,760
plus.powercast.com

735
00:27:35,029 --> 00:27:32,960
yes the video is coming

736
00:27:37,909 --> 00:27:35,039
chris is sending me

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the unfiltered copy so we can try better

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ways to encode it so that when you look

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at it you get decent quality without it

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saturating all your bandwidth so it's

741
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complicated we'll get it done but we

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have the ad free version of this show

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where we kill 41 minutes of network ads

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we have the after the power cast podcast

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we've got some show transcripts showing

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so if you want to learn more go to

751
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we were talking about

752
00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:18,399
star wars because there's a big mythos

753
00:28:21,909 --> 00:28:19,520
involving

754
00:28:24,149 --> 00:28:21,919
that series so you got my point micah

755
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:24,159
that george lucas supposedly would not

756
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:25,440
have done it

757
00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:27,600
the way it was done if he had any

758
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:29,600
authority what's your take

759
00:28:33,590 --> 00:28:31,200
i'm sure you wouldn't have done things

760
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:33,600
the way that jj abrams uh and after

761
00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:35,200
henry and johnson will do the uh the

762
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:38,000
next two films in this in this final

763
00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:40,080
three installments of star wars i do

764
00:28:44,389 --> 00:28:42,880
understand that of course lucas is still

765
00:28:46,310 --> 00:28:44,399
something of a technical advisor but

766
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:46,320
having sold the franchise obviously he

767
00:28:48,870 --> 00:28:47,520
is no longer

768
00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:48,880
the final word

769
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:51,760
on anything i'm certain that the general

770
00:28:55,990 --> 00:28:53,760
outline of what lucas had envisioned

771
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:56,000
will play out in these films but they're

772
00:28:59,110 --> 00:28:57,200
going to be certain elements they're

773
00:29:00,870 --> 00:28:59,120
going to be certain incidents that will

774
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:00,880
occur throughout the films that probably

775
00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:03,600
lucas would not have endorsed or carried

776
00:29:08,149 --> 00:29:06,000
out himself and that's just part of the

777
00:29:09,430 --> 00:29:08,159
the passing of the torch when it comes

778
00:29:10,630 --> 00:29:09,440
to you know the inner workings of

779
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:10,640
hollywood and the business side of

780
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:11,760
things although there's an interesting

781
00:29:16,389 --> 00:29:14,320
myth of mythological counterpart to that

782
00:29:17,669 --> 00:29:16,399
i find and it's good to bring this up

783
00:29:19,269 --> 00:29:17,679
really important to bring this up guys

784
00:29:21,269 --> 00:29:19,279
because like you said gene the mythos

785
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:21,279
surrounding star wars it was very

786
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:23,120
inspired by mythology

787
00:29:26,549 --> 00:29:24,720
lucas was always a fan of joseph

788
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:26,559
campbell those final interviews that

789
00:29:30,149 --> 00:29:28,320
were carried out for the pbs series the

790
00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:30,159
power of myth just about a year before

791
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:31,440
campbell died i think were actually

792
00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:33,760
filmed there at skywalker ranch and it's

793
00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:36,080
important to remember the influence that

794
00:29:41,269 --> 00:29:38,399
not only mythologist joseph campbell and

795
00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:41,279
his work had on lucas but also just the

796
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:44,080
idea of the recurring hero motif that

797
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:45,120
goes all the way back to ancient

798
00:29:48,789 --> 00:29:46,799
hermetic traditions it's something that

799
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:48,799
is really mirrored in a lot of world

800
00:29:52,389 --> 00:29:50,399
cultures traditions religions and

801
00:29:54,389 --> 00:29:52,399
mythologies and the stories of the great

802
00:29:57,190 --> 00:29:54,399
hero the rise the fall you know

803
00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:57,200
sometimes the rebirth of the hero we see

804
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:59,360
all these elements repeated in star wars

805
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:00,960
and so one thing that apparently lucas

806
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:03,360
had always liked with the idea of a

807
00:30:08,070 --> 00:30:06,240
rhythmic or almost a literal rhyme you

808
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:08,080
know a rhythm that you could sense with

809
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:09,760
the films and so the fact that episode

810
00:30:14,789 --> 00:30:12,559
seven as he interestingly points out he

811
00:30:16,149 --> 00:30:14,799
didn't like the the ways that it that it

812
00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:16,159
mirrored the fourth film many people

813
00:30:20,149 --> 00:30:18,000
have made that observation to an extent

814
00:30:22,710 --> 00:30:20,159
that was intentional in keeping with

815
00:30:24,789 --> 00:30:22,720
this rhythmic sense that the films have

816
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:24,799
you know episode one uh the phantom

817
00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:27,360
menace i believe uh this this film had a

818
00:30:30,549 --> 00:30:29,200
somewhat similar not maybe to the extent

819
00:30:33,269 --> 00:30:30,559
that number seven does but a somewhat

820
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:33,279
similar sense of rhythm to episode four

821
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:35,200
now episode seven repeats that just as

822
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:36,880
well which is uh to me almost

823
00:30:40,710 --> 00:30:38,880
reminiscent of the the ancient uh

824
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:40,720
ballads and of course the uh the epic

825
00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:43,520
poems the odyssey and whatnot and any

826
00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:45,760
number of countless uh examples that

827
00:30:49,590 --> 00:30:47,120
that come from different cultures and

828
00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:49,600
ancient traditions we see a lot of these

829
00:30:52,549 --> 00:30:50,880
components that are mirrored in the

830
00:30:54,230 --> 00:30:52,559
actual film making and while lucas may

831
00:30:56,470 --> 00:30:54,240
not like that interestingly it seems to

832
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:56,480
be somewhat an intention of his own that

833
00:30:59,830 --> 00:30:58,480
these films wouldn't mirror one another

834
00:31:01,510 --> 00:30:59,840
in that sense

835
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:01,520
now the other criticism we can make of

836
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:04,480
jj abrams is that he's very good or bad

837
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:06,880
about retreading and the argument

838
00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:08,799
relates to the film star trek into

839
00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:11,760
darkness where they retread star trek to

840
00:31:16,710 --> 00:31:14,960
the wrath of khan in some level all

841
00:31:18,870 --> 00:31:16,720
right that's another example there was

842
00:31:21,669 --> 00:31:18,880
an argument in forbes magazine over all

843
00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:21,679
this micah where one person was saying

844
00:31:25,110 --> 00:31:24,320
that the important thing about this is

845
00:31:27,750 --> 00:31:25,120
that

846
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:27,760
the film was more realistic showing

847
00:31:33,269 --> 00:31:30,240
without doing anything about a spoiler

848
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:33,279
that after episode six things were not

849
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:35,840
just tidied up they didn't have a

850
00:31:41,269 --> 00:31:39,440
happily ever after conclusion things

851
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:41,279
didn't work out as much as you wanted

852
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:42,240
which is

853
00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:44,320
the point of the relationship between

854
00:31:50,630 --> 00:31:48,080
han solo and leia it wasn't just all

855
00:31:52,950 --> 00:31:50,640
sweetness and light nobody in this film

856
00:31:54,549 --> 00:31:52,960
seems to be getting any respite

857
00:31:56,950 --> 00:31:54,559
from all the things but

858
00:32:00,549 --> 00:31:56,960
again the new stars are pretty good the

859
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:00,559
new two young british stars 23

860
00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:04,080
years old each oh wow i have to say

861
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:06,320
it's actually incredible how good they

862
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:08,399
are and and how well they are able to

863
00:32:11,269 --> 00:32:09,360
perform

864
00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:11,279
in the in this new film it's very

865
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:12,799
important and i don't think that we we

866
00:32:17,909 --> 00:32:16,080
got this with the prequels to an extent

867
00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:17,919
what we had with the prequels was unlike

868
00:32:22,230 --> 00:32:20,080
uh episode four five and six we had

869
00:32:24,230 --> 00:32:22,240
relative newcomers uh as a matter of

870
00:32:25,909 --> 00:32:24,240
fact i think that uh apart from some

871
00:32:27,590 --> 00:32:25,919
some you know

872
00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:27,600
actually remarkably

873
00:32:31,029 --> 00:32:29,360
lesser roles we're talking about you

874
00:32:33,029 --> 00:32:31,039
know bit parts and films uh you know

875
00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:33,039
commercials and things like that but

876
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:35,039
there hadn't really been a real serious

877
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:36,480
breakthrough role either for carrie

878
00:32:41,430 --> 00:32:39,840
fisher mark hamill uh or for uh harrison

879
00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:41,440
ford and and some of the other harrison

880
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:42,880
ford of course had

881
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:45,360
indiana jones i don't think the first

882
00:32:49,509 --> 00:32:47,120
indiana jones preceded the first star

883
00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:49,519
wars though did it no it did not yeah

884
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:50,640
yeah that's what i'm saying is you know

885
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:52,559
it was kind of that that breakthrough

886
00:32:56,230 --> 00:32:54,240
role for him now he would go on after

887
00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:56,240
star wars of course to do uh indiana

888
00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:58,159
jones which i think may be

889
00:33:00,630 --> 00:32:59,200
uh

890
00:33:01,990 --> 00:33:00,640
i think maybe that harrison at very

891
00:33:03,509 --> 00:33:02,000
least probably enjoyed that character

892
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:03,519
more than he did han solo he's pretty

893
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:05,120
he's pretty close on

894
00:33:08,149 --> 00:33:06,720
on on the mark when he says he didn't

895
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:08,159
think that han solo was the best

896
00:33:12,149 --> 00:33:10,240
representation of his acting prowess and

897
00:33:13,909 --> 00:33:12,159
i think that frankly some of the tom

898
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:13,919
clancy uh films that he did after that

899
00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:15,840
patriot games and whatnot probably were

900
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:18,640
even better roles for the older more

901
00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:20,880
serious harrison ford by the way again

902
00:33:25,509 --> 00:33:22,799
those early star wars films featured

903
00:33:27,430 --> 00:33:25,519
these actors in these roles where they

904
00:33:29,110 --> 00:33:27,440
were able to kind of break through and

905
00:33:32,149 --> 00:33:29,120
there wasn't already some sort of a kind

906
00:33:33,269 --> 00:33:32,159
of a public uh cultural

907
00:33:35,269 --> 00:33:33,279
i don't know what would you call it i

908
00:33:37,430 --> 00:33:35,279
mean an attitude toward them based on

909
00:33:39,350 --> 00:33:37,440
their prior roles so so it was a very

910
00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:39,360
believable element in the star wars

911
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:40,880
films where these characters relative

912
00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:42,640
newcomers the actress themselves

913
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:44,159
actually were

914
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:46,080
believably conveyed these parts when we

915
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:48,080
went back and saw the prequels

916
00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:50,240
what we ended up having a lot of was we

917
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:52,799
had you know well-known well-established

918
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:54,799
actors who were coming into these roles

919
00:33:59,590 --> 00:33:57,200
of these already now mythical characters

920
00:34:01,990 --> 00:33:59,600
themselves obi-wan kenobi and and the

921
00:34:03,509 --> 00:34:02,000
like and so when you see relatively

922
00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:03,519
well-known actors

923
00:34:07,750 --> 00:34:05,760
coming into these roles i think that the

924
00:34:09,909 --> 00:34:07,760
in in a sense the suspension of

925
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:09,919
disbelief is diminished somewhat among

926
00:34:13,109 --> 00:34:11,440
you

927
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:13,119
yeah let me just point out a couple of

928
00:34:16,950 --> 00:34:14,320
things here

929
00:34:18,230 --> 00:34:16,960
one of the stars of the prequel hayden

930
00:34:21,030 --> 00:34:18,240
christensen

931
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:21,040
left hollywood pretty much after a few

932
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:23,040
years he just gave it up although i

933
00:34:27,030 --> 00:34:24,240
understand he's getting back into the

934
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:27,040
business now in terms of careers

935
00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:28,879
carrie fisher's didn't go much of

936
00:34:33,030 --> 00:34:30,639
anywhere in terms of

937
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:33,040
movie stardom mark hamill became a

938
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:35,440
pretty regular reliable character actor

939
00:34:40,389 --> 00:34:37,679
did a lot of voice-overs and you see him

940
00:34:42,149 --> 00:34:40,399
on the flash now where he plays the

941
00:34:44,149 --> 00:34:42,159
trickster

942
00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:44,159
chris

943
00:34:48,629 --> 00:34:47,599
kind of a wacky comic book villain

944
00:34:50,310 --> 00:34:48,639
okay

945
00:34:51,669 --> 00:34:50,320
i thought i'd mention the trickster

946
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:51,679
because

947
00:34:56,950 --> 00:34:54,960
of you but that's what's happened to him

948
00:34:59,670 --> 00:34:56,960
so really harrison ford is the one who

949
00:35:01,190 --> 00:34:59,680
had a real career

950
00:35:02,390 --> 00:35:01,200
a constant

951
00:35:04,950 --> 00:35:02,400
movie

952
00:35:07,270 --> 00:35:04,960
career as an a-list actor

953
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:07,280
and i should point out one thing also

954
00:35:13,829 --> 00:35:10,720
when he was playing the tom clancy role

955
00:35:16,790 --> 00:35:13,839
in the tom clancy films

956
00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:16,800
i talked to palm clancy

957
00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:18,720
when he was doing that and he was

958
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:21,040
totally unimpressed with harrison ford

959
00:35:25,670 --> 00:35:22,800
said the guy was dumb

960
00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:25,680
really that's what he told me tom clancy

961
00:35:30,310 --> 00:35:28,720
never minced words i met him in the 90s

962
00:35:32,069 --> 00:35:30,320
he used to show up at the mac world

963
00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:32,079
expos

964
00:35:36,230 --> 00:35:34,160
and i once helped him with some problem

965
00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:36,240
with his

966
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:37,520
cd drive

967
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:43,030
but clear and present danger patriot

968
00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:45,839
games harrison ford

969
00:35:50,630 --> 00:35:47,839
didn't like it that much

970
00:35:53,030 --> 00:35:50,640
question then did he prefer in any way

971
00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:53,040
uh the hunt for red october and alec

972
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:55,760
baldwin's portrayal of the character

973
00:36:01,829 --> 00:35:59,040
yeah or ben affleck and uh yeah

974
00:36:03,430 --> 00:36:01,839
or the current remake with chris pine

975
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:03,440
right did he prefer any of those well he

976
00:36:07,270 --> 00:36:05,040
didn't mention chris pine because that

977
00:36:09,510 --> 00:36:07,280
happened after his death i think as far

978
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:09,520
as the others no he did not i got the

979
00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:12,240
impression maybe he would have liked

980
00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:14,320
alec baldwin but alec baldwin didn't

981
00:36:18,069 --> 00:36:16,320
want to become an action hero he also

982
00:36:19,910 --> 00:36:18,079
played the shadow

983
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:19,920
if we remember a lot of people didn't

984
00:36:25,750 --> 00:36:23,200
like that film i liked it but

985
00:36:28,470 --> 00:36:25,760
alec baldwin i thought was a proper

986
00:36:30,790 --> 00:36:28,480
shadow a proper dark character he's also

987
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:30,800
stars in the current mission impossible

988
00:36:34,950 --> 00:36:33,200
film with tom cruise mission impossible

989
00:36:36,790 --> 00:36:34,960
rogue nation that's kind of a romp i

990
00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:36,800
kind of like that phil let's get away

991
00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:39,040
from that okay we've got more to cover

992
00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:41,040
with micah hanks of the ghrelian report

993
00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:43,040
with gene and chris you're in the

994
00:36:53,710 --> 00:36:52,790
you are listening to gcn

995
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visit

996
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gcnlive.com today

997
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998
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poor man's paranormal and you're

1093
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listening to the paracast the gold

1094
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micah hanks joining us we started with

1095
00:41:29,349 --> 00:41:26,880
pop culture

1096
00:41:30,870 --> 00:41:29,359
the influence of star wars

1097
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:30,880
and we kind of went into some other

1098
00:41:33,750 --> 00:41:32,000
areas

1099
00:41:36,390 --> 00:41:33,760
i guess star wars being the ultimate

1100
00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:36,400
dysfunctional family which influences so

1101
00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:37,760
much by the way

1102
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:39,839
tv and movies like believe it or not

1103
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this new sunny and light super girls

1104
00:41:47,670 --> 00:41:44,960
series on cbs

1105
00:41:50,069 --> 00:41:47,680
dysfunctional family two of the major

1106
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:50,079
villains her aunt and her uncle from

1107
00:41:54,309 --> 00:41:52,000
krypton well it just seems to be a

1108
00:41:56,470 --> 00:41:54,319
reoccurring motif how about the uh

1109
00:41:58,870 --> 00:41:56,480
dysfunctional partnership that's uh

1110
00:42:01,589 --> 00:41:58,880
getting rebooted here this uh

1111
00:42:02,390 --> 00:42:01,599
coming january uh well actually this

1112
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:02,400
month

1113
00:42:06,790 --> 00:42:04,880
with david duchovny and jillian anderson

1114
00:42:07,990 --> 00:42:06,800
uh i wonder if we're going to see the

1115
00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:08,000
same

1116
00:42:14,069 --> 00:42:10,960
incredible upwelling of interest in the

1117
00:42:16,150 --> 00:42:14,079
paranormal and ufos that we saw in 92 i

1118
00:42:18,870 --> 00:42:16,160
think when the original came out what do

1119
00:42:19,990 --> 00:42:18,880
you think micah uh well i think if

1120
00:42:22,150 --> 00:42:20,000
nothing else it's going to be a

1121
00:42:23,589 --> 00:42:22,160
continuation with a lot of the sci-fi

1122
00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:23,599
that we're seeing right now rather than

1123
00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:25,760
being new and innovative what we're

1124
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:27,680
seeing is the continuation

1125
00:42:31,270 --> 00:42:29,359
of the old i mean that with the x-files

1126
00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:31,280
that with the reboot of twin peaks that

1127
00:42:33,910 --> 00:42:32,480
with of course the star wars

1128
00:42:36,309 --> 00:42:33,920
continuation that with actually the

1129
00:42:38,230 --> 00:42:36,319
continuation of doctor who that with uh

1130
00:42:40,230 --> 00:42:38,240
star trek and the jj abrams editions i

1131
00:42:42,630 --> 00:42:40,240
mean we we're seeing more and more

1132
00:42:45,430 --> 00:42:42,640
the kind of rehashing and revamping

1133
00:42:47,030 --> 00:42:45,440
modernization of these classic sci-fi

1134
00:42:49,109 --> 00:42:47,040
motifs i think really what i would like

1135
00:42:50,950 --> 00:42:49,119
to see would be something that would set

1136
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:50,960
a new precedent that would influence

1137
00:42:54,790 --> 00:42:52,640
culture in a different way maybe it

1138
00:42:56,630 --> 00:42:54,800
won't have an effect on the ufological

1139
00:42:57,990 --> 00:42:56,640
community like x-files did back in the

1140
00:43:00,069 --> 00:42:58,000
90s but i think that there are other

1141
00:43:02,550 --> 00:43:00,079
areas of interest that could be spurred

1142
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:02,560
and maybe should be if the proper kind

1143
00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:04,079
of science fiction and fantasy could be

1144
00:43:06,790 --> 00:43:05,359
implemented but that just seems to be

1145
00:43:08,309 --> 00:43:06,800
the case is that

1146
00:43:09,670 --> 00:43:08,319
i don't know if it was the time and the

1147
00:43:11,510 --> 00:43:09,680
era during which

1148
00:43:13,910 --> 00:43:11,520
star trek emerged on the scene and then

1149
00:43:16,150 --> 00:43:13,920
the time in the era in terms of american

1150
00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:16,160
cinema that star wars not just america

1151
00:43:18,950 --> 00:43:17,200
of course knowing that there were five

1152
00:43:21,510 --> 00:43:18,960
british actors in the film as well but

1153
00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:21,520
and that cinema really had reached

1154
00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:23,200
have we gotten to a point to a new

1155
00:43:26,069 --> 00:43:24,640
milestone and i know that you wanted to

1156
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:26,079
get away from cinema but it is important

1157
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:27,440
i think to talk about this in the sense

1158
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:29,680
that how it actually affects the culture

1159
00:43:33,030 --> 00:43:31,599
and in this case you know ufo or

1160
00:43:36,550 --> 00:43:33,040
mysteries whatever

1161
00:43:38,790 --> 00:43:36,560
but has cinema reached a new state of uh

1162
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:38,800
state of the art that it is more

1163
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:41,680
difficult to set that ground-breaking

1164
00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:43,440
kind of precedent that the old films did

1165
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:45,599
and what effect will that have it seems

1166
00:43:48,790 --> 00:43:46,560
if anything i don't think that

1167
00:43:50,309 --> 00:43:48,800
necessarily interest in the unexplained

1168
00:43:52,950 --> 00:43:50,319
is diminishing but it's a recurring

1169
00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:52,960
theme talk about mythos and myths and

1170
00:43:55,910 --> 00:43:54,880
and motifs that we address on this show

1171
00:43:57,109 --> 00:43:55,920
when i come on with you guys we're

1172
00:43:59,190 --> 00:43:57,119
always talking about is there a

1173
00:44:02,150 --> 00:43:59,200
lessening interest in ufos especially

1174
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:02,160
among younger people if that's the case

1175
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:04,000
could it be that the way that pop

1176
00:44:06,950 --> 00:44:05,520
culture is rehashing rather than

1177
00:44:08,790 --> 00:44:06,960
innovating and setting new precedence

1178
00:44:10,309 --> 00:44:08,800
has that had some sort of an effect i

1179
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:10,319
couldn't tell you if it has

1180
00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:11,680
but i mean because again causation

1181
00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:13,200
doesn't necessarily equal correlation

1182
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:16,160
but we certainly do seem to see uh each

1183
00:44:19,910 --> 00:44:18,000
of these things happening well before we

1184
00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:19,920
go on another area of retreat is comic

1185
00:44:23,589 --> 00:44:20,880
books

1186
00:44:25,109 --> 00:44:23,599
so there is a video i think on youtube

1187
00:44:26,790 --> 00:44:25,119
where you see all the people who played

1188
00:44:30,870 --> 00:44:26,800
superman they've constantly rebooted

1189
00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:30,880
superman they reboot batman a few times

1190
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:34,400
they brought the flash on tv twice for

1191
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:38,800
one season 1990 and now again on the cw

1192
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:40,880
and the guy who played the flash then

1193
00:44:44,790 --> 00:44:43,200
john wesley's ship plays the flash's

1194
00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:44,800
father now that's another thing they do

1195
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:47,599
by the way to pay recognition to the

1196
00:44:52,309 --> 00:44:49,680
past in these new versions of comic book

1197
00:44:55,349 --> 00:44:52,319
stories they find the original players

1198
00:44:57,589 --> 00:44:55,359
like in supergirl dean kane from lois

1199
00:45:00,309 --> 00:44:57,599
and clark new adventures of superman and

1200
00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:00,319
helen slater who played supergirl in a

1201
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:02,960
unsuccessful movie plays the foster

1202
00:45:07,510 --> 00:45:05,280
parents of the current supergirl always

1203
00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:07,520
bringing back these old characters mark

1204
00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:09,920
hamill's trickster was in the original

1205
00:45:15,190 --> 00:45:12,960
flash on tv in 1990 and is back in the

1206
00:45:18,230 --> 00:45:15,200
new version playing the same character

1207
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:18,240
so it is retread upon retread it's not

1208
00:45:22,550 --> 00:45:20,079
only in in science fiction though gene

1209
00:45:23,829 --> 00:45:22,560
was everywhere well what we're seeing is

1210
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:23,839
they're trying to bring back you know

1211
00:45:26,870 --> 00:45:25,839
they attempted to bring back starsky and

1212
00:45:29,510 --> 00:45:26,880
hutch and

1213
00:45:31,109 --> 00:45:29,520
and charlie's angels and i think what

1214
00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:31,119
you're seeing is

1215
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:33,359
the investors people that put up you

1216
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:35,200
know these tens and sometimes hundreds

1217
00:45:39,109 --> 00:45:36,960
of millions of dollars are real

1218
00:45:42,950 --> 00:45:39,119
reluctant to go with new

1219
00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:42,960
writers new scenarios new uh you know

1220
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:45,920
creative ideas because of the risk

1221
00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:47,680
involved and so what they're thinking as

1222
00:45:51,349 --> 00:45:49,520
well these worked in the past so let's

1223
00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:51,359
try to reboot them now and i think

1224
00:45:54,950 --> 00:45:53,119
basically that's

1225
00:45:57,190 --> 00:45:54,960
a function of

1226
00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:57,200
a reluctance

1227
00:46:00,550 --> 00:45:58,240
to

1228
00:46:03,910 --> 00:46:00,560
acknowledge and get behind new and

1229
00:46:05,589 --> 00:46:03,920
creative ideas and i think it's it's

1230
00:46:08,309 --> 00:46:05,599
the conservatism

1231
00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:08,319
of the actual funding of these of these

1232
00:46:12,390 --> 00:46:09,920
films and underwriting these films

1233
00:46:14,309 --> 00:46:12,400
that's driving a lot of this

1234
00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:14,319
reboot sort of thing that we've been

1235
00:46:19,670 --> 00:46:16,880
seeing over the past 10 years and and

1236
00:46:22,069 --> 00:46:19,680
and that to me uh indicates a distrust

1237
00:46:25,270 --> 00:46:22,079
of a new creative talent new creative

1238
00:46:28,150 --> 00:46:25,280
ideas and and people's reluctance to to

1239
00:46:30,309 --> 00:46:28,160
gamble on you know things that uh

1240
00:46:32,470 --> 00:46:30,319
haven't worked yet because they're new

1241
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:32,480
the other thing is here is they try to

1242
00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:33,599
bring back

1243
00:46:37,829 --> 00:46:35,839
tv characters and movies

1244
00:46:39,030 --> 00:46:37,839
and most times

1245
00:46:41,430 --> 00:46:39,040
they fail

1246
00:46:43,510 --> 00:46:41,440
look at the examples i spy

1247
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:43,520
now remember that was bill cosby and

1248
00:46:47,349 --> 00:46:45,839
robert culp back in the 60s when people

1249
00:46:49,589 --> 00:46:47,359
like bill cosby

1250
00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:49,599
they bring him back where eddie murphy

1251
00:46:53,829 --> 00:46:51,920
plays the bill cosby character and they

1252
00:46:54,790 --> 00:46:53,839
didn't have a single

1253
00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:54,800
clue

1254
00:46:59,109 --> 00:46:56,640
about the great rapport

1255
00:47:02,230 --> 00:46:59,119
that culp and cosby had in the original

1256
00:47:03,829 --> 00:47:02,240
i spy they brought the man from uncle

1257
00:47:05,030 --> 00:47:03,839
with henry cavill the guy who played

1258
00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:05,040
superman

1259
00:47:09,430 --> 00:47:07,359
and army hammer who plays the ilya

1260
00:47:11,109 --> 00:47:09,440
kuryakyn role that originally was played

1261
00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:11,119
by david mccallum who's currently on

1262
00:47:14,870 --> 00:47:12,960
ncis by the way

1263
00:47:17,030 --> 00:47:14,880
and i thought that film by the way was

1264
00:47:19,030 --> 00:47:17,040
pretty decent but it didn't make back

1265
00:47:20,630 --> 00:47:19,040
its investment it was directed by the

1266
00:47:23,910 --> 00:47:20,640
guy who brought sherlock holmes in the

1267
00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:23,920
movies on tv bringing back a series

1268
00:47:27,270 --> 00:47:24,880
mixed

1269
00:47:28,550 --> 00:47:27,280
results the x-files we'll see it's the

1270
00:47:30,870 --> 00:47:28,560
original cast

1271
00:47:32,550 --> 00:47:30,880
they also brought back hawaii 5-0 and

1272
00:47:34,630 --> 00:47:32,560
that's done well

1273
00:47:38,069 --> 00:47:34,640
that is one of the few

1274
00:47:40,550 --> 00:47:38,079
rebooted series that actually works but

1275
00:47:42,470 --> 00:47:40,560
i agree with you the lack of creativity

1276
00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:42,480
people just want to know what worked

1277
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:43,920
which is part of one of the reasons

1278
00:47:46,950 --> 00:47:45,760
bringing back star wars why do you think

1279
00:47:48,470 --> 00:47:46,960
disney bought

1280
00:47:50,950 --> 00:47:48,480
lucasfilm

1281
00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:50,960
to bring something new to the table no

1282
00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:52,400
recapture

1283
00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:53,280
the

1284
00:47:58,390 --> 00:47:56,000
old success and make hay of it it was a

1285
00:48:01,670 --> 00:47:58,400
financial decision let's find something

1286
00:48:04,710 --> 00:48:01,680
that has proven and star wars is proven

1287
00:48:07,270 --> 00:48:04,720
let's do that disney also bought marvel

1288
00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:07,280
why because marvel comics

1289
00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:08,800
still are popular

1290
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:11,280
marvel films based on the comics are

1291
00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:13,599
popular so they wanted to buy that

1292
00:48:18,069 --> 00:48:16,000
property it was a business decision the

1293
00:48:19,589 --> 00:48:18,079
tried and the true

1294
00:48:20,870 --> 00:48:19,599
you know hearing both of you guys talk

1295
00:48:23,190 --> 00:48:20,880
about this

1296
00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:23,200
brings something sort of different but

1297
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:25,599
but entirely related to mind

1298
00:48:29,190 --> 00:48:27,280
is we see the um

1299
00:48:30,870 --> 00:48:29,200
you know the repurchase

1300
00:48:32,309 --> 00:48:30,880
the you know the kind of redirection and

1301
00:48:34,950 --> 00:48:32,319
the rehashing

1302
00:48:36,870 --> 00:48:34,960
of science fiction and comics and and

1303
00:48:39,430 --> 00:48:36,880
you know films and television shows of

1304
00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:39,440
yesteryear and in the more modern sense

1305
00:48:43,990 --> 00:48:41,920
in a way although we've kind of lost

1306
00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:44,000
uh creativity

1307
00:48:46,630 --> 00:48:45,440
or rather i should say we haven't lost

1308
00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:46,640
it i guess it's just being kind of

1309
00:48:50,069 --> 00:48:48,880
redirected into old motifs and kind of

1310
00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:50,079
the improvement or at least the

1311
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:51,280
expansion of

1312
00:48:54,549 --> 00:48:52,960
of older ideas as much as i would love

1313
00:48:56,710 --> 00:48:54,559
to see something really new that could

1314
00:48:58,309 --> 00:48:56,720
set a new kind of precedent

1315
00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:58,319
we could ask maybe the same thing about

1316
00:49:03,030 --> 00:49:00,000
ufo research

1317
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:03,040
there is still so much interest in for

1318
00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:04,800
instance like we might like in rendering

1319
00:49:08,309 --> 00:49:06,720
to being the star wars of ufo cases you

1320
00:49:10,470 --> 00:49:08,319
know taking place at around the same

1321
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:10,480
time period uh we could look back at uh

1322
00:49:13,750 --> 00:49:12,240
you know roswell as being kind of the

1323
00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:13,760
star trek although it preceded the

1324
00:49:17,349 --> 00:49:15,440
actual airing of star trek on television

1325
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:17,359
by a number of years nonetheless you

1326
00:49:20,230 --> 00:49:19,200
know era for error there seem there seem

1327
00:49:22,549 --> 00:49:20,240
to be

1328
00:49:23,990 --> 00:49:22,559
ufo cases that have kind of maintained

1329
00:49:26,870 --> 00:49:24,000
the cultural

1330
00:49:28,309 --> 00:49:26,880
sort of uh you know staple position uh

1331
00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:28,319
you know for their era kind of like

1332
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:30,400
these television shows have and

1333
00:49:33,670 --> 00:49:32,240
in much the same way this is interesting

1334
00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:33,680
because i don't mean to try and assert

1335
00:49:38,390 --> 00:49:35,520
there's a correlation here but it is an

1336
00:49:39,990 --> 00:49:38,400
interesting uh element to note

1337
00:49:42,549 --> 00:49:40,000
that as we see

1338
00:49:44,230 --> 00:49:42,559
culture rehashing old sci-fi ideas

1339
00:49:45,670 --> 00:49:44,240
rather than creating new ones the ufo

1340
00:49:47,349 --> 00:49:45,680
community does seem to be doing the same

1341
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:47,359
thing and many researchers nick redfern

1342
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:49,200
i've talked about it a good bit myself

1343
00:49:53,990 --> 00:49:51,520
uh you know we we see that there seems

1344
00:49:56,950 --> 00:49:54,000
to be less and less significant ufo

1345
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:56,960
activity in recent years which would at

1346
00:50:00,870 --> 00:49:58,480
least be comparable to what we were

1347
00:50:03,109 --> 00:50:00,880
seeing in the days of april and nycap

1348
00:50:04,470 --> 00:50:03,119
and and the ufo research of yesteryear i

1349
00:50:06,549 --> 00:50:04,480
mean could there be some sort of a

1350
00:50:08,710 --> 00:50:06,559
cultural component underlying some of

1351
00:50:09,750 --> 00:50:08,720
that almost at times when we when we

1352
00:50:11,349 --> 00:50:09,760
take these kind of things into

1353
00:50:14,549 --> 00:50:11,359
consideration in the way that trends

1354
00:50:16,710 --> 00:50:14,559
seem to affect research or filmmaking or

1355
00:50:18,069 --> 00:50:16,720
pop culture or anything but the

1356
00:50:20,470 --> 00:50:18,079
similarity

1357
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:20,480
in the the wax and wane of interest and

1358
00:50:24,069 --> 00:50:22,240
and redirection of energy and and

1359
00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:24,079
inspiration it almost seems to be

1360
00:50:26,950 --> 00:50:25,440
unavoidable at times and i can't help

1361
00:50:28,710 --> 00:50:26,960
but think that maybe the kind of trends

1362
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:28,720
we're seeing in filmmaking with regard

1363
00:50:32,069 --> 00:50:30,720
to science fiction and fantasy do in

1364
00:50:33,990 --> 00:50:32,079
some way have something to do with the

1365
00:50:35,829 --> 00:50:34,000
changing attitudes about ufos in recent

1366
00:50:37,589 --> 00:50:35,839
years yeah yeah that's that's a really

1367
00:50:39,829 --> 00:50:37,599
good point and it also

1368
00:50:41,910 --> 00:50:39,839
is a perfect place to dovetail into a

1369
00:50:43,349 --> 00:50:41,920
question from ron away

1370
00:50:44,470 --> 00:50:43,359
who posted a question for our guest

1371
00:50:46,549 --> 00:50:44,480
micah hanks here at

1372
00:50:48,230 --> 00:50:46,559
forum.theparacast.com

1373
00:50:50,390 --> 00:50:48,240
and he's saying roswell rendershim

1374
00:50:52,390 --> 00:50:50,400
travis walton had been done to death are

1375
00:50:53,829 --> 00:50:52,400
there any recent ufo or paranormal

1376
00:50:56,150 --> 00:50:53,839
events that are receiving serious

1377
00:50:58,230 --> 00:50:56,160
scientific open-minded scrutiny on par

1378
00:51:00,069 --> 00:50:58,240
with our old favorites

1379
00:51:01,910 --> 00:51:00,079
well how funny

1380
00:51:03,670 --> 00:51:01,920
you know what we're just about out of

1381
00:51:05,589 --> 00:51:03,680
time for the segment so let's hold that

1382
00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:05,599
for a few seconds

1383
00:51:09,990 --> 00:51:07,680
and we'll give our benefactors a chance

1384
00:51:12,549 --> 00:51:10,000
to regale us with information about the

1385
00:51:14,870 --> 00:51:12,559
things they do and when we come back

1386
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:14,880
micah hanks will answer the first

1387
00:51:18,150 --> 00:51:16,319
question from our listeners there are

1388
00:51:20,309 --> 00:51:18,160
more questions to be asked we're

1389
00:51:23,109 --> 00:51:20,319
wrapping up the year starting a new year

1390
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:23,119
trying to see where things fit

1391
00:51:27,109 --> 00:51:25,280
after kind of a difficult year for chris

1392
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:27,119
certainly and difficult year for me

1393
00:51:31,990 --> 00:51:29,040
we've got to see where it's going micah

1394
00:51:39,230 --> 00:51:32,000
hanks gene steinberg chris o'brien

1395
00:51:43,829 --> 00:51:40,309
[Applause]

1396
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:43,839
thank you for listening to gcn

1397
00:51:49,990 --> 00:51:48,000
be sure to visit gcnlive.com today

1398
00:51:52,390 --> 00:51:50,000
attack of the rockoids has been well

1399
00:51:53,990 --> 00:51:52,400
received by critics and readers alike

1400
00:51:55,349 --> 00:51:54,000
it's a thrill-a-minute story you'll

1401
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never forget

1402
00:51:59,750 --> 00:51:57,280
a former u.s military intelligence

1403
00:52:02,309 --> 00:51:59,760
officer is haunted by intense dreams

1404
00:52:04,710 --> 00:52:02,319
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

1405
00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:04,720
help after a terrible battle in outer

1406
00:52:07,910 --> 00:52:05,760
space

1407
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:07,920
but the dreams turn out to be true and

1408
00:52:12,549 --> 00:52:09,839
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

1409
00:52:15,030 --> 00:52:12,559
with a woman whose far away planet is

1410
00:52:17,510 --> 00:52:15,040
intent on destroying the earth

1411
00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:17,520
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1412
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1413
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1414
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1415
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1416
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fanatical enemies that threaten the

1417
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lives of freedom-loving beings

1418
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1419
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attack of the rockoids and the coming of

1420
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the protectors classic science fiction

1421
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1422
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1423
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1424
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1425
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1426
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1427
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1428
00:53:03,990 --> 00:53:02,240
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1429
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1430
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1432
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1433
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1434
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1435
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1437
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1438
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1439
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1440
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1441
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1443
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1444
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1446
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1447
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1448
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[Music]

1449
00:54:03,349 --> 00:53:59,670
welcome back to the paracast the gold

1450
00:54:04,630 --> 00:54:03,359
standard of paranormal radio

1451
00:54:11,349 --> 00:54:04,640
and now

1452
00:54:15,829 --> 00:54:14,230
you see we just kind of suck our guests

1453
00:54:17,910 --> 00:54:15,839
into saying that

1454
00:54:19,109 --> 00:54:17,920
chris asks a question micah hanks a

1455
00:54:20,470 --> 00:54:19,119
response

1456
00:54:22,309 --> 00:54:20,480
chris would you mind kind of restating

1457
00:54:24,069 --> 00:54:22,319
that question just that we can stay dude

1458
00:54:26,069 --> 00:54:24,079
well basically uh we were talking about

1459
00:54:29,430 --> 00:54:26,079
how there seems to be a parallel between

1460
00:54:31,190 --> 00:54:29,440
cultural uh memes and uh the ev in

1461
00:54:33,430 --> 00:54:31,200
science fiction especially in the ebony

1462
00:54:35,670 --> 00:54:33,440
and flowing of of ufology and you were

1463
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:35,680
likening cases to uh

1464
00:54:39,750 --> 00:54:37,680
to tv shows and movies in the sci-fi

1465
00:54:41,109 --> 00:54:39,760
realm and ronalway wants to know if

1466
00:54:42,950 --> 00:54:41,119
there's any

1467
00:54:45,270 --> 00:54:42,960
paranormal events

1468
00:54:46,950 --> 00:54:45,280
currently and or recently that are

1469
00:54:49,349 --> 00:54:46,960
receiving any serious scientific

1470
00:54:51,270 --> 00:54:49,359
open-minded scrutiny on par with our old

1471
00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:51,280
favorites randall shim roswell travis

1472
00:54:54,870 --> 00:54:52,400
walton

1473
00:54:56,150 --> 00:54:54,880
as he says that have been done to death

1474
00:54:58,230 --> 00:54:56,160
excellent yeah and thank you again for

1475
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:58,240
restating that question uh now again in

1476
00:55:02,069 --> 00:54:59,359
response to it at least from my

1477
00:55:04,470 --> 00:55:02,079
perspective uh it's it's a weird state

1478
00:55:07,030 --> 00:55:04,480
of affairs right now uh with regard to

1479
00:55:08,790 --> 00:55:07,040
ufo research i will say that um

1480
00:55:09,829 --> 00:55:08,800
i'm not a member of the mutual ufo

1481
00:55:12,230 --> 00:55:09,839
network

1482
00:55:13,190 --> 00:55:12,240
uh that is the uh the current standing

1483
00:55:15,589 --> 00:55:13,200
uh and

1484
00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:15,599
broadest reaching civilian ufo research

1485
00:55:18,710 --> 00:55:17,040
group now there are other organizations

1486
00:55:20,150 --> 00:55:18,720
that have absolutely been interested in

1487
00:55:22,150 --> 00:55:20,160
ufo research as we've discussed a good

1488
00:55:23,589 --> 00:55:22,160
bit on this program and you guys have

1489
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:23,599
in the past with james carrion on the

1490
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:25,680
program especially in relation to uh the

1491
00:55:29,910 --> 00:55:28,000
the involvement of robert bigelow and

1492
00:55:30,950 --> 00:55:29,920
his uh his organization which has looked

1493
00:55:32,870 --> 00:55:30,960
into this over the years they're a

1494
00:55:34,309 --> 00:55:32,880
little less forthcoming with

1495
00:55:35,750 --> 00:55:34,319
some of their data although there have

1496
00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:35,760
certainly been public reports been

1497
00:55:39,829 --> 00:55:37,440
issued on such things as these famous

1498
00:55:41,750 --> 00:55:39,839
black triangles well actually i should

1499
00:55:43,430 --> 00:55:41,760
say in in fairness really move on

1500
00:55:45,030 --> 00:55:43,440
although a public organization and

1501
00:55:46,870 --> 00:55:45,040
releasing a lot of their case files and

1502
00:55:50,309 --> 00:55:46,880
whatnot online there is also a lot that

1503
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:50,319
is kept exclusive to mufon membership

1504
00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:52,319
and even certain tiers of mufon

1505
00:55:55,190 --> 00:55:53,760
membership we don't have to get all into

1506
00:55:56,870 --> 00:55:55,200
the nitty gritty about that but i do

1507
00:55:58,789 --> 00:55:56,880
know why don't you be brief about it so

1508
00:56:01,430 --> 00:55:58,799
listeners understand sure best

1509
00:56:03,349 --> 00:56:01,440
illustrated in example i have a um

1510
00:56:05,990 --> 00:56:03,359
a friend who i've been talking with who

1511
00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:06,000
is a very good ufo researcher in my

1512
00:56:11,190 --> 00:56:09,440
opinion and uh he had uh expressed to me

1513
00:56:12,549 --> 00:56:11,200
a little bit of dissatisfaction about

1514
00:56:13,670 --> 00:56:12,559
the fact that he was trying to gain

1515
00:56:15,670 --> 00:56:13,680
access to

1516
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:15,680
particular files related to a case i'll

1517
00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:16,880
go ahead and mention the case it was

1518
00:56:19,829 --> 00:56:18,480
actually uh covered very in-depth on

1519
00:56:21,670 --> 00:56:19,839
this program once it was the cache

1520
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:21,680
landrum ufo incident from around dayton

1521
00:56:26,230 --> 00:56:24,160
texas uh back in 1980 which occurred

1522
00:56:28,950 --> 00:56:26,240
within just a few days of the rendelshim

1523
00:56:31,589 --> 00:56:28,960
encounter near suffolk in england but uh

1524
00:56:34,230 --> 00:56:31,599
the uh the incident in question uh there

1525
00:56:35,670 --> 00:56:34,240
are mufon files because because john

1526
00:56:37,270 --> 00:56:35,680
schussler of course had been one of the

1527
00:56:39,430 --> 00:56:37,280
primary investigators of that case at

1528
00:56:41,430 --> 00:56:39,440
the time uh the problem is is that the

1529
00:56:43,349 --> 00:56:41,440
individual who's researching that case

1530
00:56:45,910 --> 00:56:43,359
although a member of mufon has said he

1531
00:56:48,390 --> 00:56:45,920
has somewhat seen a bit of stonewalling

1532
00:56:50,150 --> 00:56:48,400
in terms of trying to get access to

1533
00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:50,160
certain files now as has been explained

1534
00:56:53,190 --> 00:56:51,760
to me by different directors state

1535
00:56:54,950 --> 00:56:53,200
directors and members of the

1536
00:56:57,109 --> 00:56:54,960
organization of course

1537
00:56:58,470 --> 00:56:57,119
it's not necessarily an exclusivity but

1538
00:57:00,630 --> 00:56:58,480
it seems to be i guess a chain of

1539
00:57:03,109 --> 00:57:00,640
prioritization again this coming from a

1540
00:57:05,190 --> 00:57:03,119
non-member in terms of how those files

1541
00:57:06,870 --> 00:57:05,200
are accessed and to whom access is given

1542
00:57:08,549 --> 00:57:06,880
and i guess any organization to an

1543
00:57:09,910 --> 00:57:08,559
extent is going to kind of keep

1544
00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:09,920
those kind of records but i guess the

1545
00:57:12,789 --> 00:57:11,599
problem that we face is that many people

1546
00:57:15,829 --> 00:57:12,799
say if we're really going to come to any

1547
00:57:18,309 --> 00:57:15,839
kind of scientific consensus about ufos

1548
00:57:19,990 --> 00:57:18,319
coming back to the question that uh that

1549
00:57:21,510 --> 00:57:20,000
chris brought to the table of course

1550
00:57:23,750 --> 00:57:21,520
we're generalizing here because on the

1551
00:57:25,990 --> 00:57:23,760
whole what i think really ufo research

1552
00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:26,000
today seems to be doing more rather than

1553
00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:29,200
a close scrutiny of these wow incredible

1554
00:57:33,750 --> 00:57:31,680
rental shum or roswell-esque kind of

1555
00:57:36,630 --> 00:57:33,760
cases it seems to be that it's been an

1556
00:57:39,510 --> 00:57:36,640
accumulation of data on you know smaller

1557
00:57:41,190 --> 00:57:39,520
lesser significant cases which certain

1558
00:57:43,589 --> 00:57:41,200
groups are now trying to take and and

1559
00:57:46,710 --> 00:57:43,599
hopefully utilize for statistical

1560
00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:46,720
analysis and also of of you know coming

1561
00:57:49,670 --> 00:57:48,000
determination uh coming to

1562
00:57:52,470 --> 00:57:49,680
determinations of the broader nature of

1563
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:52,480
the phenomena as jacques valet described

1564
00:57:55,109 --> 00:57:53,440
he's going to be speaking at the

1565
00:57:56,870 --> 00:57:55,119
international ufo congress this february

1566
00:57:58,549 --> 00:57:56,880
very excited to hear about that

1567
00:58:00,710 --> 00:57:58,559
but valet had discussed this on a coast

1568
00:58:02,150 --> 00:58:00,720
coast interview with george knapp

1569
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:02,160
during an event that he attended in

1570
00:58:07,190 --> 00:58:04,960
france sometime i suppose last year

1571
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:07,200
in which it is the hope of the

1572
00:58:10,789 --> 00:58:09,040
international ufo community the french

1573
00:58:13,349 --> 00:58:10,799
investigative group gap and i suppose

1574
00:58:15,910 --> 00:58:13,359
and and others to try and use data that

1575
00:58:17,589 --> 00:58:15,920
we have now to come to determination so

1576
00:58:18,950 --> 00:58:17,599
i guess as far as cases that are being

1577
00:58:20,789 --> 00:58:18,960
given that kind of attention we don't

1578
00:58:23,030 --> 00:58:20,799
seem to see it as much today but i guess

1579
00:58:25,109 --> 00:58:23,040
the broader ufo phenomena at least

1580
00:58:26,549 --> 00:58:25,119
internationally is being treated in

1581
00:58:28,549 --> 00:58:26,559
terms of collection of data and

1582
00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:28,559
statistical analysis of that information

1583
00:58:33,349 --> 00:58:30,000
we've been seeing it in south america as

1584
00:58:35,670 --> 00:58:33,359
well yeah yeah transparency i think is a

1585
00:58:38,069 --> 00:58:35,680
major issue that's always been a bit of

1586
00:58:39,910 --> 00:58:38,079
a fly in the ointment with the advent of

1587
00:58:41,910 --> 00:58:39,920
more transparency especially as you

1588
00:58:44,069 --> 00:58:41,920
mentioned down south america i think if

1589
00:58:45,270 --> 00:58:44,079
this trend continues obviously it's

1590
00:58:47,430 --> 00:58:45,280
going to put more and more pressure on

1591
00:58:48,230 --> 00:58:47,440
the united states to pony up

1592
00:58:50,150 --> 00:58:48,240
some

1593
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:50,160
information that hasn't been uh released

1594
00:58:54,150 --> 00:58:51,839
into the public domain

1595
00:58:56,309 --> 00:58:54,160
but i think as more and more of these uh

1596
00:58:58,630 --> 00:58:56,319
countries open up their files it's going

1597
00:59:00,309 --> 00:58:58,640
to on one hand sort of put more pressure

1598
00:59:01,990 --> 00:59:00,319
on the us and on another hand it's going

1599
00:59:03,270 --> 00:59:02,000
to relieve pressure because people are

1600
00:59:06,150 --> 00:59:03,280
getting something they didn't have

1601
00:59:07,750 --> 00:59:06,160
before and that may be a stop gap

1602
00:59:10,230 --> 00:59:07,760
measure for the u.s to continue

1603
00:59:12,549 --> 00:59:10,240
stringing everybody along or

1604
00:59:14,630 --> 00:59:12,559
conversely there may be nothing really

1605
00:59:16,470 --> 00:59:14,640
you know i think in total to to release

1606
00:59:19,190 --> 00:59:16,480
to the public it's all probably

1607
00:59:21,510 --> 00:59:19,200
compartmentalized and and disassociated

1608
00:59:24,549 --> 00:59:21,520
information you know if you release it

1609
00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:24,559
it with out of context uh it it doesn't

1610
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:27,040
really go very far so i really hope that

1611
00:59:32,069 --> 00:59:30,240
we see an upswelling and support and in

1612
00:59:35,270 --> 00:59:32,079
awareness of

1613
00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:35,280
new technologically based efforts

1614
00:59:39,990 --> 00:59:37,520
into hard data monitoring and true

1615
00:59:42,870 --> 00:59:40,000
scientific ufology i think the the

1616
00:59:43,670 --> 00:59:42,880
cultural side of this has really created

1617
00:59:45,270 --> 00:59:43,680
uh

1618
00:59:48,230 --> 00:59:45,280
an artificial sense of what the

1619
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:48,240
phenomenon actually uh is

1620
00:59:52,710 --> 00:59:50,480
i really have a sense that uh you know

1621
00:59:54,150 --> 00:59:52,720
we're talking pop culture here the you

1622
00:59:57,030 --> 00:59:54,160
know people are getting their education

1623
00:59:58,710 --> 00:59:57,040
from the internet from tv shows about uh

1624
01:00:00,150 --> 00:59:58,720
about the the ufo subject and other

1625
01:00:02,309 --> 01:00:00,160
paranormal subjects

1626
01:00:03,990 --> 01:00:02,319
for that matter and

1627
01:00:06,549 --> 01:00:04,000
you know

1628
01:00:08,390 --> 01:00:06,559
it's not necessarily a good thing i mean

1629
01:00:10,390 --> 01:00:08,400
sure it's it's opening up the subject

1630
01:00:12,710 --> 01:00:10,400
matter to a wider

1631
01:00:15,430 --> 01:00:12,720
variety of people and more people

1632
01:00:17,990 --> 01:00:15,440
but i don't really think that the

1633
01:00:20,630 --> 01:00:18,000
educational process that the pop culture

1634
01:00:21,670 --> 01:00:20,640
is giving people is it accurate reflects

1635
01:00:24,470 --> 01:00:21,680
a mystery

1636
01:00:26,230 --> 01:00:24,480
and uh i just hope that we don't get to

1637
01:00:28,069 --> 01:00:26,240
to a point where

1638
01:00:31,030 --> 01:00:28,079
the pop culture version totally

1639
01:00:32,390 --> 01:00:31,040
subjugates uh you know the real hard

1640
01:00:34,150 --> 01:00:32,400
work that's being done i think

1641
01:00:35,829 --> 01:00:34,160
scientifically uh behind the scenes

1642
01:00:38,309 --> 01:00:35,839
right now to an extent has it done that

1643
01:00:39,510 --> 01:00:38,319
already you know a question chris that i

1644
01:00:42,150 --> 01:00:39,520
would have is

1645
01:00:43,510 --> 01:00:42,160
i can't read a headline anymore and i've

1646
01:00:44,710 --> 01:00:43,520
i've always complained about this and i

1647
01:00:45,829 --> 01:00:44,720
know you guys would agree you read

1648
01:00:48,309 --> 01:00:45,839
anything that has to do with a

1649
01:00:50,390 --> 01:00:48,319
semi-legitimate ufo case

1650
01:00:53,430 --> 01:00:50,400
and uh it'll always kick off with some

1651
01:00:54,870 --> 01:00:53,440
really just lame uh you know entry you

1652
01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:54,880
know the nut graph you know the the

1653
01:00:58,549 --> 01:00:56,400
beginning of the article it'll be

1654
01:01:00,230 --> 01:00:58,559
something like uh the truth is out there

1655
01:01:01,670 --> 01:01:00,240
at least according to one doctor montana

1656
01:01:03,670 --> 01:01:01,680
who believes he has new photos that are

1657
01:01:06,069 --> 01:01:03,680
proof of alien life i'm thinking no it

1658
01:01:07,829 --> 01:01:06,079
no that entire sentence was completely

1659
01:01:10,470 --> 01:01:07,839
malformed misshapen

1660
01:01:12,230 --> 01:01:10,480
it was terrible i mean because again

1661
01:01:14,309 --> 01:01:12,240
first we have to presume of course that

1662
01:01:15,829 --> 01:01:14,319
we're talking about alien life right any

1663
01:01:17,510 --> 01:01:15,839
proof of anything strange and

1664
01:01:19,270 --> 01:01:17,520
technological or apparently so in the

1665
01:01:21,990 --> 01:01:19,280
sky is alien right

1666
01:01:24,549 --> 01:01:22,000
tell me how that is a logical conclusion

1667
01:01:25,829 --> 01:01:24,559
that one can come to any way i i think

1668
01:01:27,109 --> 01:01:25,839
that's a sense of disturbance in the

1669
01:01:27,910 --> 01:01:27,119
force are we coming up on a break here

1670
01:01:29,750 --> 01:01:27,920
guys

1671
01:01:33,430 --> 01:01:29,760
a break not come

1672
01:01:35,990 --> 01:01:33,440
i'm sorry to sound like tonto here

1673
01:01:39,190 --> 01:01:36,000
we not have break come right now we

1674
01:01:40,950 --> 01:01:39,200
continue to talk about force disturbance

1675
01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:40,960
okay good the only disturbance in the

1676
01:01:45,990 --> 01:01:43,680
force is one of logic i just like not to

1677
01:01:47,430 --> 01:01:46,000
ramble off completely i i think i come

1678
01:01:49,430 --> 01:01:47,440
on the show enough with you guys we have

1679
01:01:51,190 --> 01:01:49,440
our own sense of rhythm and and maybe

1680
01:01:52,230 --> 01:01:51,200
whatever the universal force is which is

1681
01:01:53,430 --> 01:01:52,240
one thing i should say it's really

1682
01:01:55,430 --> 01:01:53,440
always good to be able to talk with you

1683
01:01:57,030 --> 01:01:55,440
guys about this and yet it's sad to me

1684
01:01:59,430 --> 01:01:57,040
that when we every time we do get to

1685
01:02:01,190 --> 01:01:59,440
talk the three of us it seems that so

1686
01:02:03,030 --> 01:02:01,200
many of these problems uh you know are

1687
01:02:05,030 --> 01:02:03,040
the are the same issues and really i

1688
01:02:06,390 --> 01:02:05,040
feel maybe will be the same issues for

1689
01:02:08,630 --> 01:02:06,400
some time to come you know like chris

1690
01:02:10,470 --> 01:02:08,640
saying you know will the actual serious

1691
01:02:12,069 --> 01:02:10,480
study of strange things seen in the sky

1692
01:02:14,230 --> 01:02:12,079
you know phenomena in our skies be

1693
01:02:16,630 --> 01:02:14,240
subjugated by the pop culture you know

1694
01:02:18,390 --> 01:02:16,640
belief that has been kind of associated

1695
01:02:19,990 --> 01:02:18,400
with it the more we discuss this more

1696
01:02:22,549 --> 01:02:20,000
important i realized that the serious

1697
01:02:24,630 --> 01:02:22,559
considerations as it relates to how pop

1698
01:02:26,950 --> 01:02:24,640
culture influences serious study of

1699
01:02:29,510 --> 01:02:26,960
strange phenomena especially the ufo

1700
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:29,520
phenomena uh it it really is becoming

1701
01:02:33,589 --> 01:02:31,200
more and more important to me i see

1702
01:02:35,589 --> 01:02:33,599
because people's attitudes and opinions

1703
01:02:37,589 --> 01:02:35,599
are often blinded by the kind of pop

1704
01:02:39,270 --> 01:02:37,599
culture interpretation of you know what

1705
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:39,280
would contact with alien life be what

1706
01:02:42,950 --> 01:02:40,720
would contact with artificial

1707
01:02:45,190 --> 01:02:42,960
intelligence be like you know that one

1708
01:02:47,030 --> 01:02:45,200
to me again it goes hand in hand with

1709
01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:47,040
the serious search for extraterrestrial

1710
01:02:50,710 --> 01:02:48,960
life because either way whether it be ai

1711
01:02:52,950 --> 01:02:50,720
of our own creation or alien life from

1712
01:02:54,789 --> 01:02:52,960
someplace else we will eventually and i

1713
01:02:56,549 --> 01:02:54,799
do think that this is the truth i don't

1714
01:02:59,030 --> 01:02:56,559
know when it'll happen but one day

1715
01:03:00,710 --> 01:02:59,040
humankind will without question come to

1716
01:03:02,950 --> 01:03:00,720
a point where we are met with an

1717
01:03:04,950 --> 01:03:02,960
intelligence that is not our own and

1718
01:03:06,710 --> 01:03:04,960
which may be greater than human

1719
01:03:07,910 --> 01:03:06,720
intelligence it could be ai could be

1720
01:03:09,510 --> 01:03:07,920
aliens but at some point that will

1721
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:09,520
happen and i think that really

1722
01:03:12,950 --> 01:03:11,760
examination of each of those two is very

1723
01:03:15,190 --> 01:03:12,960
important and yet once again they're

1724
01:03:17,430 --> 01:03:15,200
mostly relegated to sci-fi

1725
01:03:18,390 --> 01:03:17,440
no that's what makes things so difficult

1726
01:03:20,470 --> 01:03:18,400
here

1727
01:03:22,789 --> 01:03:20,480
the entire question

1728
01:03:25,270 --> 01:03:22,799
and i just wonder how we prepare for it

1729
01:03:26,789 --> 01:03:25,280
in fact we had somebody on the show a

1730
01:03:29,349 --> 01:03:26,799
couple of weeks back who did a book

1731
01:03:32,069 --> 01:03:29,359
about how to talk to an alien but it

1732
01:03:33,750 --> 01:03:32,079
really wasn't more involved than

1733
01:03:35,670 --> 01:03:33,760
talking a bit about channeling and

1734
01:03:37,990 --> 01:03:35,680
things like that it really didn't get

1735
01:03:39,990 --> 01:03:38,000
into the real subject that much we've

1736
01:03:42,069 --> 01:03:40,000
got micah hanks who is getting into real

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subjects with gene and chris you're in

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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

1842
01:07:59,029 --> 01:07:55,440
comment or question about the paracast

1843
01:08:02,230 --> 01:07:59,039
send it to news at theparecast.com

1844
01:08:04,069 --> 01:08:02,240
that's news at the paracast.com

1845
01:08:06,549 --> 01:08:04,079
and don't forget to visit our famous

1846
01:08:11,109 --> 01:08:06,559
paracast community forums at

1847
01:08:15,829 --> 01:08:13,829
so we're here we're starting off the

1848
01:08:19,669 --> 01:08:15,839
show which is being heard

1849
01:08:22,390 --> 01:08:19,679
on the 3rd of january 2016.

1850
01:08:24,789 --> 01:08:22,400
and as of february of this year

1851
01:08:25,829 --> 01:08:24,799
we'll have done 10 years of the power

1852
01:08:27,430 --> 01:08:25,839
cast

1853
01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:27,440
and we'll keep doing it till we get it

1854
01:08:31,269 --> 01:08:29,440
right micah hanks is here he's not

1855
01:08:34,149 --> 01:08:31,279
responding to that

1856
01:08:37,590 --> 01:08:35,430
normally i guess i'll jump in and try to

1857
01:08:38,870 --> 01:08:37,600
be boisterous but i will say by the way

1858
01:08:41,110 --> 01:08:38,880
that's uh you know one heck of a

1859
01:08:43,590 --> 01:08:41,120
milestone congratulations here's to 10

1860
01:08:45,110 --> 01:08:43,600
more good years of fabulous podcasting

1861
01:08:46,709 --> 01:08:45,120
with one of the shows that i prefer to

1862
01:08:50,950 --> 01:08:46,719
listen to and i have the time to listen

1863
01:08:54,709 --> 01:08:52,709
when myself

1864
01:08:55,669 --> 01:08:54,719
it's 10 years from now

1865
01:09:00,309 --> 01:08:55,679
yes

1866
01:09:04,390 --> 01:09:01,669
yeah but you maintain that youthful

1867
01:09:06,309 --> 01:09:04,400
quality as you just exemplified actually

1868
01:09:08,149 --> 01:09:06,319
you know it was in it was coinciding

1869
01:09:10,470 --> 01:09:08,159
with the the passing of uh one of the

1870
01:09:12,550 --> 01:09:10,480
the great icons of yesteryear in ufology

1871
01:09:14,149 --> 01:09:12,560
jim mosely when he passed away i'd

1872
01:09:16,309 --> 01:09:14,159
contacted eugene and said you know gene

1873
01:09:17,829 --> 01:09:16,319
could you come on and uh and uh you know

1874
01:09:19,590 --> 01:09:17,839
come on the greely and important and and

1875
01:09:21,510 --> 01:09:19,600
give a statement coming from someone who

1876
01:09:22,789 --> 01:09:21,520
knew jim pretty well and i remember as

1877
01:09:24,550 --> 01:09:22,799
we were getting ready to record he said

1878
01:09:27,110 --> 01:09:24,560
all right as they would say in radio in

1879
01:09:28,630 --> 01:09:27,120
wrestling let's get ready to rumble so

1880
01:09:30,309 --> 01:09:28,640
you do have that youthful character to

1881
01:09:31,910 --> 01:09:30,319
you sir i'm sure in 10 years you'll be

1882
01:09:33,349 --> 01:09:31,920
you'll still be going strong and and

1883
01:09:34,470 --> 01:09:33,359
bringing brilliant points to this sort

1884
01:09:38,789 --> 01:09:34,480
of discussion

1885
01:09:41,669 --> 01:09:38,799
and roll or as i say it sometimes we're

1886
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:41,679
going to rock and roll

1887
01:09:45,110 --> 01:09:43,120
the problem with that voice it's kind of

1888
01:09:47,430 --> 01:09:45,120
like making funny faces my mother used

1889
01:09:49,510 --> 01:09:47,440
to say if you keep making funny faces

1890
01:09:52,550 --> 01:09:49,520
your face will stick that way and i

1891
01:09:54,070 --> 01:09:52,560
think of nowadays jim carrey his face

1892
01:09:56,070 --> 01:09:54,080
didn't change

1893
01:09:58,229 --> 01:09:56,080
so if you if you force the voice too

1894
01:10:01,030 --> 01:09:58,239
much you don't want to look like wolfman

1895
01:10:03,030 --> 01:10:01,040
jack because that would be really scary

1896
01:10:05,270 --> 01:10:03,040
i just like the money he had before he

1897
01:10:06,709 --> 01:10:05,280
died that's all

1898
01:10:09,510 --> 01:10:06,719
well here's here's an interesting

1899
01:10:12,790 --> 01:10:09,520
question uh for mike i in this kind of

1900
01:10:16,070 --> 01:10:12,800
goes into a retrospective look back at

1901
01:10:19,189 --> 01:10:16,080
2015 but sue who's been a poster since

1902
01:10:21,189 --> 01:10:19,199
2013 at forum.paracast.com

1903
01:10:22,070 --> 01:10:21,199
uh has posted in the question bank for

1904
01:10:25,590 --> 01:10:22,080
you

1905
01:10:28,310 --> 01:10:25,600
theoretical and research trends in

1906
01:10:31,830 --> 01:10:28,320
ufology and paranormal ology i've never

1907
01:10:34,229 --> 01:10:31,840
heard that term before uh from 2015 and

1908
01:10:35,910 --> 01:10:34,239
what should our goals be for 2016 and

1909
01:10:38,470 --> 01:10:35,920
she goes uh she has a couple of

1910
01:10:39,669 --> 01:10:38,480
follow-up questions uh after we handle

1911
01:10:41,430 --> 01:10:39,679
those

1912
01:10:43,350 --> 01:10:41,440
okay well since she said uh i would

1913
01:10:45,189 --> 01:10:43,360
prefer maybe phenomenology to

1914
01:10:46,950 --> 01:10:45,199
paranormalology but by the same token if

1915
01:10:48,790 --> 01:10:46,960
i say phenomenology i had someone try

1916
01:10:51,110 --> 01:10:48,800
and actually uh

1917
01:10:52,950 --> 01:10:51,120
point out that i misused that term on

1918
01:10:54,470 --> 01:10:52,960
one occasion a few years back he was i

1919
01:10:56,229 --> 01:10:54,480
think uh studying for his bachelor's

1920
01:10:58,470 --> 01:10:56,239
degree when i outlined the eight we're

1921
01:11:01,110 --> 01:10:58,480
so different terminal terminological

1922
01:11:03,189 --> 01:11:01,120
usage uh or ways that that term could be

1923
01:11:04,870 --> 01:11:03,199
used uh he then asked if i would

1924
01:11:06,470 --> 01:11:04,880
actually be willing to give an interview

1925
01:11:08,149 --> 01:11:06,480
so that he could cite me as a source for

1926
01:11:09,990 --> 01:11:08,159
the paper he was writing so i

1927
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:10,000
nonetheless uh maintain that

1928
01:11:14,550 --> 01:11:12,800
phenomenology apart from its relevance

1929
01:11:16,390 --> 01:11:14,560
to such things as philosophy it would

1930
01:11:19,270 --> 01:11:16,400
certainly apply to the study of

1931
01:11:20,630 --> 01:11:19,280
phenomena as we're discussing here so um

1932
01:11:23,590 --> 01:11:20,640
and since we're talking about that

1933
01:11:25,669 --> 01:11:23,600
rather than a ufological uh innovation

1934
01:11:28,870 --> 01:11:25,679
or or breakthrough or or science being

1935
01:11:30,229 --> 01:11:28,880
applied to that subject you know one one

1936
01:11:32,070 --> 01:11:30,239
subject that was really important and

1937
01:11:34,470 --> 01:11:32,080
interesting to me this year which did

1938
01:11:37,669 --> 01:11:34,480
see a lot of science put to it

1939
01:11:39,750 --> 01:11:37,679
was the search for anomalous primates

1940
01:11:41,110 --> 01:11:39,760
more specifically bigfoot yeti

1941
01:11:43,830 --> 01:11:41,120
the sasquatch

1942
01:11:46,070 --> 01:11:43,840
and uh that was brian sykes dna

1943
01:11:47,350 --> 01:11:46,080
uh analysis which was extremely

1944
01:11:52,229 --> 01:11:47,360
extremely

1945
01:11:53,910 --> 01:11:52,239
was i think in some ways unnecessarily

1946
01:11:55,750 --> 01:11:53,920
so because if we have enough anecdotal

1947
01:11:57,030 --> 01:11:55,760
data coming from people in all parts of

1948
01:12:00,790 --> 01:11:57,040
the world they say that they've seen

1949
01:12:01,830 --> 01:12:00,800
upright walking humanoid but far more uh

1950
01:12:03,590 --> 01:12:01,840
you know

1951
01:12:04,950 --> 01:12:03,600
i guess i don't want to necessarily

1952
01:12:06,550 --> 01:12:04,960
always say beastly because i don't think

1953
01:12:09,270 --> 01:12:06,560
that's always the case especially with

1954
01:12:11,270 --> 01:12:09,280
the almasti and the urals of russia

1955
01:12:13,030 --> 01:12:11,280
certain quote-unquote anomalous primates

1956
01:12:14,870 --> 01:12:13,040
are less like great big hiring monsters

1957
01:12:16,950 --> 01:12:14,880
and they act a lot more like simply

1958
01:12:18,070 --> 01:12:16,960
pre-modern humans which are

1959
01:12:19,350 --> 01:12:18,080
naturally they're going to be a little

1960
01:12:21,590 --> 01:12:19,360
more primitive

1961
01:12:23,270 --> 01:12:21,600
than what we call modern humans today

1962
01:12:25,910 --> 01:12:23,280
but nonetheless they they are probably

1963
01:12:27,590 --> 01:12:25,920
more human also than the typical bigfoot

1964
01:12:29,510 --> 01:12:27,600
or sasquatch according to eyewitness

1965
01:12:30,950 --> 01:12:29,520
reports so that said

1966
01:12:32,870 --> 01:12:30,960
dealing with apparently a variety of

1967
01:12:34,390 --> 01:12:32,880
different phenomena around the world

1968
01:12:36,149 --> 01:12:34,400
that fall under that categorization of

1969
01:12:38,390 --> 01:12:36,159
anomalous primates i don't see why with

1970
01:12:40,709 --> 01:12:38,400
all the anecdotal evidence that has been

1971
01:12:42,470 --> 01:12:40,719
forthcoming i you know witness reports

1972
01:12:44,149 --> 01:12:42,480
why science wouldn't step in and say

1973
01:12:45,510 --> 01:12:44,159
okay well maybe it is time we should

1974
01:12:47,830 --> 01:12:45,520
start looking at this

1975
01:12:50,149 --> 01:12:47,840
now the staunch and uh and renowned

1976
01:12:51,669 --> 01:12:50,159
skeptic pz meyers had been one of many

1977
01:12:54,470 --> 01:12:51,679
who on his blog

1978
01:12:56,630 --> 01:12:54,480
had attacked brian sykes not only for

1979
01:12:58,870 --> 01:12:56,640
the study but for fudging certain

1980
01:13:00,790 --> 01:12:58,880
results part of the result had been that

1981
01:13:03,189 --> 01:13:00,800
while no anomalous primate evidence in

1982
01:13:04,870 --> 01:13:03,199
dna analysis of some 30 samples i

1983
01:13:06,630 --> 01:13:04,880
believe or so

1984
01:13:09,270 --> 01:13:06,640
had been found they did find what they

1985
01:13:11,669 --> 01:13:09,280
had believed to be the evidence of a 400

1986
01:13:14,310 --> 01:13:11,679
000 year old variety of polar bear

1987
01:13:16,709 --> 01:13:14,320
thought to be extinct now subsequent

1988
01:13:19,189 --> 01:13:16,719
independent analyses of those samples

1989
01:13:20,950 --> 01:13:19,199
found dissimilar results and they felt

1990
01:13:23,030 --> 01:13:20,960
that it was less likely that sykes had

1991
01:13:24,630 --> 01:13:23,040
been correct in his determination about

1992
01:13:27,350 --> 01:13:24,640
this polar bear it had been possible

1993
01:13:29,430 --> 01:13:27,360
that the dna sample had uh had suffered

1994
01:13:31,110 --> 01:13:29,440
from degradation over a period of

1995
01:13:33,110 --> 01:13:31,120
approximately one decade that this could

1996
01:13:34,630 --> 01:13:33,120
have been the result of the underlying

1997
01:13:37,350 --> 01:13:34,640
cause for the misinterpretation of the

1998
01:13:38,709 --> 01:13:37,360
results by sykes and his team but you

1999
01:13:40,550 --> 01:13:38,719
know sykes is no slouch and he's

2000
01:13:43,590 --> 01:13:40,560
certainly no fool i think he was uh one

2001
01:13:45,910 --> 01:13:43,600
of the first to actually conduct a study

2002
01:13:47,830 --> 01:13:45,920
of and and author a paper that had to do

2003
01:13:49,590 --> 01:13:47,840
with the dna extraction from ancient

2004
01:13:51,110 --> 01:13:49,600
bone he of course being you know a

2005
01:13:52,550 --> 01:13:51,120
former fellow of oxford university i

2006
01:13:54,470 --> 01:13:52,560
mean i believe i guess he may still be a

2007
01:13:56,870 --> 01:13:54,480
fellow i think he's formerly of oxford

2008
01:13:58,790 --> 01:13:56,880
but sykes again was doing what i had

2009
01:14:01,430 --> 01:13:58,800
hoped good scientists would eventually

2010
01:14:04,149 --> 01:14:01,440
do which was okay if we see enough

2011
01:14:05,669 --> 01:14:04,159
alleged evidence us anecdotal evidence i

2012
01:14:07,030 --> 01:14:05,679
suppose you know in terms of alleged

2013
01:14:08,550 --> 01:14:07,040
encounters people have had with with

2014
01:14:11,030 --> 01:14:08,560
bigfoot i mean are all of these people

2015
01:14:12,470 --> 01:14:11,040
lying and if we are at least to suspend

2016
01:14:14,950 --> 01:14:12,480
disbelief long enough to say maybe they

2017
01:14:17,590 --> 01:14:14,960
are not then what can science do with

2018
01:14:19,750 --> 01:14:17,600
proper laboratory procedure and good

2019
01:14:21,189 --> 01:14:19,760
science applied to this what can science

2020
01:14:22,870 --> 01:14:21,199
do to help try and make a determination

2021
01:14:24,390 --> 01:14:22,880
about this now it was rather revealing

2022
01:14:26,229 --> 01:14:24,400
that there was no evidence of anomalous

2023
01:14:27,669 --> 01:14:26,239
primates found that doesn't necessarily

2024
01:14:29,350 --> 01:14:27,679
mean that it never will be found and

2025
01:14:31,750 --> 01:14:29,360
that's what sykes said and part of the

2026
01:14:33,510 --> 01:14:31,760
reason for ridicule by pz meyers and and

2027
01:14:35,430 --> 01:14:33,520
others they think this guy is nuts

2028
01:14:37,030 --> 01:14:35,440
primarily just for even entertaining the

2029
01:14:39,110 --> 01:14:37,040
idea that hey maybe there's something

2030
01:14:41,430 --> 01:14:39,120
worthy of scientific study here but all

2031
01:14:43,270 --> 01:14:41,440
phenomena at the outset began as

2032
01:14:44,870 --> 01:14:43,280
unexplained phenomena and i don't think

2033
01:14:46,550 --> 01:14:44,880
that we've closed the door on bigfoot it

2034
01:14:48,950 --> 01:14:46,560
was good though there were no results

2035
01:14:50,149 --> 01:14:48,960
forthcoming that were positive i guess

2036
01:14:51,510 --> 01:14:50,159
in the sense of trying to prove

2037
01:14:53,430 --> 01:14:51,520
something exists

2038
01:14:55,750 --> 01:14:53,440
it was great to see science taking a

2039
01:14:58,149 --> 01:14:55,760
step toward trying to seriously study

2040
01:14:59,910 --> 01:14:58,159
the anomalous primate problem yeah the

2041
01:15:01,910 --> 01:14:59,920
thing that always bothers me about all

2042
01:15:02,790 --> 01:15:01,920
this is that we always get to a certain

2043
01:15:05,430 --> 01:15:02,800
point

2044
01:15:08,630 --> 01:15:05,440
and that's it we can go no further so

2045
01:15:10,950 --> 01:15:08,640
with bigfoot where's the dna with ufos

2046
01:15:12,870 --> 01:15:10,960
well we have some possible trace

2047
01:15:16,470 --> 01:15:12,880
evidence we have the photographs we have

2048
01:15:19,030 --> 01:15:16,480
all this but we just can't go to that

2049
01:15:20,790 --> 01:15:19,040
next level we're always the stopping

2050
01:15:23,910 --> 01:15:20,800
point and i wonder sometimes when i

2051
01:15:26,310 --> 01:15:23,920
think about this is that stopping point

2052
01:15:28,709 --> 01:15:26,320
our inability to understand or something

2053
01:15:30,229 --> 01:15:28,719
that's deliberate that's a good question

2054
01:15:31,830 --> 01:15:30,239
uh it's interesting to me that we have

2055
01:15:33,910 --> 01:15:31,840
people all over the world that report

2056
01:15:35,350 --> 01:15:33,920
seeing a creature like bigfoot something

2057
01:15:37,189 --> 01:15:35,360
that is very similar to being a human

2058
01:15:38,790 --> 01:15:37,199
which i think really fundamentally is

2059
01:15:40,149 --> 01:15:38,800
the reason why it's so difficult to

2060
01:15:42,149 --> 01:15:40,159
believe if we were seeing something that

2061
01:15:44,470 --> 01:15:42,159
was far more monstrous and less

2062
01:15:47,590 --> 01:15:44,480
anthropomorphic in its general shape and

2063
01:15:50,149 --> 01:15:47,600
uh and behavior i think it would be far

2064
01:15:51,750 --> 01:15:50,159
easier for people in some ways to say

2065
01:15:53,750 --> 01:15:51,760
okay this is clearly not a person in a

2066
01:15:56,470 --> 01:15:53,760
suit it's the fact that bigfoot so so

2067
01:15:58,149 --> 01:15:56,480
closely resembles humans if it exists

2068
01:16:00,070 --> 01:15:58,159
that it makes it very difficult to

2069
01:16:01,830 --> 01:16:00,080
distinguish it from being a person in a

2070
01:16:03,590 --> 01:16:01,840
suit you know although many would say

2071
01:16:05,350 --> 01:16:03,600
that it's it's quite obviously not that

2072
01:16:06,790 --> 01:16:05,360
when they've been those on the receiving

2073
01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:06,800
end of the actual observation when

2074
01:16:10,229 --> 01:16:08,400
they've actually seen this creature in

2075
01:16:12,310 --> 01:16:10,239
these anecdotal reports they say it's

2076
01:16:14,390 --> 01:16:12,320
much larger the arms are much longer

2077
01:16:16,310 --> 01:16:14,400
it's proportionally very different in

2078
01:16:18,149 --> 01:16:16,320
terms of its build from a human but

2079
01:16:19,990 --> 01:16:18,159
still nonetheless fairly anthropomorphic

2080
01:16:21,270 --> 01:16:20,000
and i think that this is a big problem

2081
01:16:22,870 --> 01:16:21,280
in terms of coming to a good

2082
01:16:24,630 --> 01:16:22,880
determination about what other than a

2083
01:16:26,470 --> 01:16:24,640
human it could be

2084
01:16:28,310 --> 01:16:26,480
micah hanks is with us we're trying to

2085
01:16:30,790 --> 01:16:28,320
make sense of something

2086
01:16:32,550 --> 01:16:30,800
and maybe we will before it's all over

2087
01:16:39,750 --> 01:16:32,560
with gene and chris you're in the

2088
01:16:44,590 --> 01:16:43,270
thank you for listening to gcn

2089
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2194
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01:20:58,870 --> 01:20:57,350
hi it's grant cameron from presidential

2196
01:21:01,270 --> 01:20:58,880
ufo.com

2197
01:21:08,870 --> 01:21:01,280
you're listening to the paracast the

2198
01:21:12,870 --> 01:21:10,709
let's make sense of this please go to

2199
01:21:14,950 --> 01:21:12,880
plus.powercast.com

2200
01:21:17,669 --> 01:21:14,960
plus.

2201
01:21:19,590 --> 01:21:17,679
check out the powercast plus

2202
01:21:22,229 --> 01:21:19,600
you get the ad free version of this show

2203
01:21:24,870 --> 01:21:22,239
the after the powercast wrap up show

2204
01:21:27,510 --> 01:21:24,880
we've got show transcripts that video

2205
01:21:29,750 --> 01:21:27,520
we're trying to do the final work on it

2206
01:21:32,149 --> 01:21:29,760
it's not so easy as chris is explaining

2207
01:21:35,390 --> 01:21:32,159
after the power cast but we'll get there

2208
01:21:37,189 --> 01:21:35,400
we'll get it done and it's gonna work

2209
01:21:40,070 --> 01:21:37,199
plus.theparacast.com we're giving free

2210
01:21:41,510 --> 01:21:40,080
ebooks away for long term subscriptions

2211
01:21:42,790 --> 01:21:41,520
plus dot

2212
01:21:45,030 --> 01:21:42,800
cast

2213
01:21:45,990 --> 01:21:45,040
from the graylien report we got micah

2214
01:21:48,310 --> 01:21:46,000
hanks

2215
01:21:51,590 --> 01:21:48,320
and i was mentioning and he started a

2216
01:21:53,750 --> 01:21:51,600
brief comment about the inability to go

2217
01:21:55,750 --> 01:21:53,760
to the next level with paranormal

2218
01:21:58,709 --> 01:21:55,760
research and one of the arguments you

2219
01:22:01,590 --> 01:21:58,719
make here is that for ufos for example

2220
01:22:04,470 --> 01:22:01,600
we're still repeating the theories from

2221
01:22:06,550 --> 01:22:04,480
the 1950s from the book flying saucers

2222
01:22:09,189 --> 01:22:06,560
from outer space by major donald kehoe

2223
01:22:11,189 --> 01:22:09,199
the first book i read on the subject it

2224
01:22:13,030 --> 01:22:11,199
doesn't seem except for a small number

2225
01:22:14,709 --> 01:22:13,040
of people we've gone much further have

2226
01:22:17,110 --> 01:22:14,719
we no not really

2227
01:22:18,310 --> 01:22:17,120
and we in similar fashion note the

2228
01:22:19,910 --> 01:22:18,320
inability to come to terms with

2229
01:22:21,830 --> 01:22:19,920
something apart from being a human

2230
01:22:23,750 --> 01:22:21,840
phenomena fueling bigfoot belief just as

2231
01:22:25,270 --> 01:22:23,760
well but i'll point out that when we

2232
01:22:26,470 --> 01:22:25,280
look out further into the cosmos it's

2233
01:22:28,550 --> 01:22:26,480
interesting to me that we have a lot of

2234
01:22:30,629 --> 01:22:28,560
anecdotal evidence in many instances we

2235
01:22:33,510 --> 01:22:30,639
also have film and video which uh it may

2236
01:22:35,669 --> 01:22:33,520
not offer a conclusive form of proof or

2237
01:22:37,590 --> 01:22:35,679
data but it certainly seems to keep the

2238
01:22:39,270 --> 01:22:37,600
pot stirred so to speak in terms of what

2239
01:22:41,510 --> 01:22:39,280
may or may not exist out there which we

2240
01:22:43,270 --> 01:22:41,520
haven't yet quite come to terms with but

2241
01:22:45,189 --> 01:22:43,280
in science we're often dealing with and

2242
01:22:47,430 --> 01:22:45,199
grappling with things that are

2243
01:22:49,669 --> 01:22:47,440
not only unseen

2244
01:22:51,910 --> 01:22:49,679
and absolutely i mean in the most

2245
01:22:54,550 --> 01:22:51,920
literal sense invisible phenomena but

2246
01:22:57,270 --> 01:22:54,560
also things which are fairly speculative

2247
01:22:59,030 --> 01:22:57,280
in nature you know as we presume our our

2248
01:23:00,950 --> 01:22:59,040
universe we don't presume we actually

2249
01:23:02,950 --> 01:23:00,960
know thanks to things like redshift and

2250
01:23:05,189 --> 01:23:02,960
our ability to be able to observe the

2251
01:23:07,270 --> 01:23:05,199
actual rate of speed at which other you

2252
01:23:08,709 --> 01:23:07,280
know distant galaxies and planetary

2253
01:23:10,229 --> 01:23:08,719
bodies and things like that are moving

2254
01:23:12,470 --> 01:23:10,239
further and further away from us farther

2255
01:23:13,990 --> 01:23:12,480
out in space outside our solar system

2256
01:23:15,590 --> 01:23:14,000
you know what now we can see out into

2257
01:23:16,950 --> 01:23:15,600
space and we we know that as a result of

2258
01:23:20,149 --> 01:23:16,960
this expansion of the universe that

2259
01:23:22,629 --> 01:23:20,159
things are changing with time and yet of

2260
01:23:25,910 --> 01:23:22,639
course there should also be quantifiable

2261
01:23:27,750 --> 01:23:25,920
matter which prevents the universe from

2262
01:23:29,430 --> 01:23:27,760
essentially falling apart for which we

2263
01:23:31,910 --> 01:23:29,440
have to bring into question such things

2264
01:23:33,669 --> 01:23:31,920
as dark matter and the like and and and

2265
01:23:35,990 --> 01:23:33,679
there are different theories about the

2266
01:23:38,550 --> 01:23:36,000
universe and part of the reason for this

2267
01:23:40,390 --> 01:23:38,560
is because we don't have any single

2268
01:23:41,990 --> 01:23:40,400
i hate that term grand unifying theory

2269
01:23:44,470 --> 01:23:42,000
but really this is what science aims to

2270
01:23:46,390 --> 01:23:44,480
achieve in terms of physics and

2271
01:23:48,070 --> 01:23:46,400
cosmology astronomy and everything we do

2272
01:23:49,510 --> 01:23:48,080
hope to try and come to a determination

2273
01:23:52,470 --> 01:23:49,520
where we have a good

2274
01:23:54,629 --> 01:23:52,480
scientific principle that not only does

2275
01:23:57,110 --> 01:23:54,639
it simply explain and answer a number of

2276
01:23:59,350 --> 01:23:57,120
observable phenomena but it will also uh

2277
01:24:01,030 --> 01:23:59,360
be capable of accurately predicting

2278
01:24:02,629 --> 01:24:01,040
future things that we will learn about

2279
01:24:04,629 --> 01:24:02,639
the universe and we're i think a good

2280
01:24:06,070 --> 01:24:04,639
ways from coming to kind of a unifying

2281
01:24:08,229 --> 01:24:06,080
theory of the universe but we have a

2282
01:24:10,070 --> 01:24:08,239
number of partial theories that help us

2283
01:24:12,149 --> 01:24:10,080
observe certain things for instance

2284
01:24:13,830 --> 01:24:12,159
relativity is good up until of course

2285
01:24:15,590 --> 01:24:13,840
not only quantum

2286
01:24:17,590 --> 01:24:15,600
theory but also up until we get to the

2287
01:24:19,430 --> 01:24:17,600
point of the big bang presumably there

2288
01:24:21,350 --> 01:24:19,440
was a big bang that singularity that

2289
01:24:23,350 --> 01:24:21,360
existed at the outset of the universe

2290
01:24:25,189 --> 01:24:23,360
was such that it actually or the law is

2291
01:24:27,350 --> 01:24:25,199
put forth by einstein in general

2292
01:24:29,430 --> 01:24:27,360
relativity they do break down at that

2293
01:24:32,790 --> 01:24:29,440
singularity mathematical terminology for

2294
01:24:35,270 --> 01:24:32,800
essentially a point where again the we

2295
01:24:38,070 --> 01:24:35,280
have to essentially bring a new model

2296
01:24:40,070 --> 01:24:38,080
because our theories no longer apply

2297
01:24:41,590 --> 01:24:40,080
once we reach that area so with the

2298
01:24:43,430 --> 01:24:41,600
paranormal we kind of and i've used this

2299
01:24:45,430 --> 01:24:43,440
term yes singularity in relation to the

2300
01:24:47,510 --> 01:24:45,440
ufo phenomena as well because to an

2301
01:24:49,669 --> 01:24:47,520
extent i guess with the data at our

2302
01:24:51,590 --> 01:24:49,679
disposal we have a lot of theories about

2303
01:24:53,350 --> 01:24:51,600
ufos i think we have a lot of partial

2304
01:24:54,870 --> 01:24:53,360
theories but i don't think that we seem

2305
01:24:56,390 --> 01:24:54,880
to have any kind of a unifying theory

2306
01:24:58,149 --> 01:24:56,400
that really gives us any kind of a good

2307
01:25:00,149 --> 01:24:58,159
scientific estimation of what exactly

2308
01:25:01,430 --> 01:25:00,159
ufos may be and whatever the technology

2309
01:25:03,910 --> 01:25:01,440
seems to be

2310
01:25:06,790 --> 01:25:03,920
still seems to in some instances extend

2311
01:25:08,550 --> 01:25:06,800
well beyond uh you know our ability to

2312
01:25:09,990 --> 01:25:08,560
understand ray kurzweil has employed

2313
01:25:11,430 --> 01:25:10,000
this term singularity in relation to

2314
01:25:13,350 --> 01:25:11,440
artificial intelligence once again

2315
01:25:14,950 --> 01:25:13,360
citing that continuum that exists

2316
01:25:16,629 --> 01:25:14,960
between these two phenomena which i've

2317
01:25:18,470 --> 01:25:16,639
always kind of thought about ever since

2318
01:25:19,990 --> 01:25:18,480
i began to seriously look at ufos and

2319
01:25:22,070 --> 01:25:20,000
artificial intelligence separately i

2320
01:25:24,310 --> 01:25:22,080
thought these two phenomena in many ways

2321
01:25:27,030 --> 01:25:24,320
in terms of a potential intelligence or

2322
01:25:29,990 --> 01:25:27,040
technology further beyond our own that

2323
01:25:32,629 --> 01:25:30,000
we are right now in almost kind of

2324
01:25:34,709 --> 01:25:32,639
parallel paths we are kind of seeking to

2325
01:25:36,950 --> 01:25:34,719
kind of grapple with and understand and

2326
01:25:38,390 --> 01:25:36,960
moving maybe ever closer toward

2327
01:25:39,990 --> 01:25:38,400
a fundamental reckoning with those

2328
01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:40,000
phenomena you know these these kind of

2329
01:25:43,750 --> 01:25:41,520
things uh certainly face us in the

2330
01:25:45,590 --> 01:25:43,760
paranormal as well as further out there

2331
01:25:48,070 --> 01:25:45,600
in terms of physics in the universe i

2332
01:25:50,550 --> 01:25:48,080
spend a lot more time these days reading

2333
01:25:52,229 --> 01:25:50,560
about astronomy and physics and uh and

2334
01:25:53,750 --> 01:25:52,239
also the history of science looking at

2335
01:25:55,430 --> 01:25:53,760
where we came from and when you when you

2336
01:25:57,350 --> 01:25:55,440
study history of science probably my

2337
01:25:59,110 --> 01:25:57,360
favorite study of them all apart from

2338
01:26:00,390 --> 01:25:59,120
philosophy you go although they work

2339
01:26:01,750 --> 01:26:00,400
hand in hand with one another the

2340
01:26:03,430 --> 01:26:01,760
further you go back the more you realize

2341
01:26:06,390 --> 01:26:03,440
that there have been periods in time

2342
01:26:08,470 --> 01:26:06,400
where the scientists of yesteryear they

2343
01:26:10,790 --> 01:26:08,480
came to good determinations of course

2344
01:26:12,470 --> 01:26:10,800
probably the single most uh significant

2345
01:26:14,310 --> 01:26:12,480
of of the last several hundred years had

2346
01:26:16,870 --> 01:26:14,320
been of course isaac newton in terms of

2347
01:26:18,390 --> 01:26:16,880
scientists who brought unifying

2348
01:26:20,310 --> 01:26:18,400
visions of the universe together with

2349
01:26:22,470 --> 01:26:20,320
his theories and although much much of

2350
01:26:24,790 --> 01:26:22,480
that was upset and offset by einstein

2351
01:26:26,550 --> 01:26:24,800
with general relativity there are still

2352
01:26:28,870 --> 01:26:26,560
certain ways that newtonian physics

2353
01:26:30,470 --> 01:26:28,880
apply and are simple and useful in

2354
01:26:32,229 --> 01:26:30,480
working with what we have to deal with

2355
01:26:34,149 --> 01:26:32,239
in the universe around us i wish and i

2356
01:26:35,830 --> 01:26:34,159
think that this is where science has not

2357
01:26:37,990 --> 01:26:35,840
failed but perhaps investigators of the

2358
01:26:39,189 --> 01:26:38,000
unexplained have somewhat failed i wish

2359
01:26:40,790 --> 01:26:39,199
that we could actually try to look at

2360
01:26:42,550 --> 01:26:40,800
these phenomena and rather than leaping

2361
01:26:43,750 --> 01:26:42,560
to these conclusions i won't call them

2362
01:26:45,430 --> 01:26:43,760
insane because i don't think that they

2363
01:26:47,590 --> 01:26:45,440
are but really they aren't perhaps

2364
01:26:50,149 --> 01:26:47,600
supported by really good evidence

2365
01:26:51,669 --> 01:26:50,159
i.e ufos are alien i mean they may be

2366
01:26:52,950 --> 01:26:51,679
but then we've got jacques vale who has

2367
01:26:54,070 --> 01:26:52,960
said you know all the evidence seems to

2368
01:26:55,430 --> 01:26:54,080
point to being something else and

2369
01:26:56,709 --> 01:26:55,440
therefore it must be interdimensional

2370
01:26:58,470 --> 01:26:56,719
but how do we quantify something

2371
01:26:59,830 --> 01:26:58,480
interdimensional he may not you know

2372
01:27:01,990 --> 01:26:59,840
explicitly infer that it's

2373
01:27:03,910 --> 01:27:02,000
interdimensional phenomena but i think

2374
01:27:06,310 --> 01:27:03,920
that that's one interpretation of the

2375
01:27:07,990 --> 01:27:06,320
body of vale's work then there's of

2376
01:27:09,669 --> 01:27:08,000
course this idea that we're dealing with

2377
01:27:10,950 --> 01:27:09,679
some sort of a you know secret

2378
01:27:12,790 --> 01:27:10,960
government uh this breakaway

2379
01:27:14,310 --> 01:27:12,800
civilization concept has become more and

2380
01:27:15,910 --> 01:27:14,320
more popular in recent years as it

2381
01:27:17,189 --> 01:27:15,920
relates to ufos that term coined by

2382
01:27:18,709 --> 01:27:17,199
richard dolan

2383
01:27:21,030 --> 01:27:18,719
and i think that a skeptic friend of

2384
01:27:22,550 --> 01:27:21,040
mine pointed out to me just a few weeks

2385
01:27:24,070 --> 01:27:22,560
ago that the important thing about

2386
01:27:26,070 --> 01:27:24,080
science is that it's not about just

2387
01:27:27,750 --> 01:27:26,080
maintaining a consensus opinion and just

2388
01:27:29,590 --> 01:27:27,760
being you know a sheeple and just you

2389
01:27:31,030 --> 01:27:29,600
know con agreeing with everything that

2390
01:27:32,709 --> 01:27:31,040
you know stephen hawking whoever else

2391
01:27:35,189 --> 01:27:32,719
writes it's important though that

2392
01:27:37,430 --> 01:27:35,199
scientists reach certain consensus based

2393
01:27:40,149 --> 01:27:37,440
on the probability and the likelihood

2394
01:27:41,830 --> 01:27:40,159
and with the ufo phenomena we seem to

2395
01:27:43,350 --> 01:27:41,840
still be grappling with a lot of

2396
01:27:44,950 --> 01:27:43,360
different potentials we haven't really

2397
01:27:46,790 --> 01:27:44,960
come to some sort of a consensus that

2398
01:27:48,550 --> 01:27:46,800
the ufological community on the whole

2399
01:27:50,310 --> 01:27:48,560
would say this seems to be the most

2400
01:27:51,590 --> 01:27:50,320
likely thing that we're dealing with and

2401
01:27:53,430 --> 01:27:51,600
i think if we really want to move

2402
01:27:54,950 --> 01:27:53,440
forward with paranormal phenomena and

2403
01:27:56,629 --> 01:27:54,960
the study of it would really help to

2404
01:27:57,510 --> 01:27:56,639
kind of get to a point where we can say

2405
01:27:59,350 --> 01:27:57,520
okay

2406
01:28:01,510 --> 01:27:59,360
what is a ufo most likely what is

2407
01:28:03,910 --> 01:28:01,520
bigfoot most likely and from there how

2408
01:28:05,669 --> 01:28:03,920
can we proceed scientifically in terms

2409
01:28:07,990 --> 01:28:05,679
of study

2410
01:28:10,709 --> 01:28:08,000
well a lot of people in the ufo field

2411
01:28:13,110 --> 01:28:10,719
say ufos are most likely spaceships

2412
01:28:15,430 --> 01:28:13,120
that's been a prevailing theory for so

2413
01:28:16,149 --> 01:28:15,440
many years yeah but whose spaceships i

2414
01:28:18,229 --> 01:28:16,159
mean we could say that there's

2415
01:28:19,189 --> 01:28:18,239
spaceships that seems to infer alien i

2416
01:28:21,189 --> 01:28:19,199
know

2417
01:28:22,550 --> 01:28:21,199
but again that may be a prevailing

2418
01:28:24,229 --> 01:28:22,560
theory but what is the evidence that

2419
01:28:26,790 --> 01:28:24,239
really supports the existence of alien

2420
01:28:29,030 --> 01:28:26,800
life piloting spaceships you know coming

2421
01:28:30,550 --> 01:28:29,040
into our atmosphere could any kind of an

2422
01:28:32,390 --> 01:28:30,560
er okay here's the here's the here's a

2423
01:28:33,990 --> 01:28:32,400
good point i like to make with this we

2424
01:28:36,149 --> 01:28:34,000
can look out there our astronomers our

2425
01:28:37,830 --> 01:28:36,159
cosmologists you know our physicists

2426
01:28:39,350 --> 01:28:37,840
they're they're so troubled by the fact

2427
01:28:41,750 --> 01:28:39,360
that we can't seem to find any good

2428
01:28:43,350 --> 01:28:41,760
evidence out there of alien life now the

2429
01:28:44,550 --> 01:28:43,360
ufo researcher would say ah but it's

2430
01:28:45,750 --> 01:28:44,560
right here it's under your nose

2431
01:28:47,590 --> 01:28:45,760
physicist you're looking in the wrong

2432
01:28:49,189 --> 01:28:47,600
place it's right here

2433
01:28:51,669 --> 01:28:49,199
but if we're talking about phenomena

2434
01:28:53,110 --> 01:28:51,679
that's occurring mostly here on earth

2435
01:28:55,750 --> 01:28:53,120
and that all the observational data

2436
01:28:57,270 --> 01:28:55,760
comes from earth's

2437
01:28:58,709 --> 01:28:57,280
you know barring some theories about

2438
01:29:00,790 --> 01:28:58,719
what astronauts may see from time to

2439
01:29:02,310 --> 01:29:00,800
time up there which is still in you know

2440
01:29:03,590 --> 01:29:02,320
earth orbit

2441
01:29:04,870 --> 01:29:03,600
you know if we're seeing all this

2442
01:29:06,550 --> 01:29:04,880
phenomena occurring right here around

2443
01:29:08,950 --> 01:29:06,560
earth and yet there seems to be this

2444
01:29:11,350 --> 01:29:08,960
again great silence everywhere else in

2445
01:29:12,550 --> 01:29:11,360
the universe why is it that we presume

2446
01:29:14,550 --> 01:29:12,560
what we're dealing with is something

2447
01:29:16,070 --> 01:29:14,560
that is from elsewhere what evidence do

2448
01:29:17,910 --> 01:29:16,080
we have that we're seeing this come from

2449
01:29:19,830 --> 01:29:17,920
someplace else i don't think that's an

2450
01:29:21,030 --> 01:29:19,840
unfair question you know this is stuff

2451
01:29:23,990 --> 01:29:21,040
very interesting let me just mention

2452
01:29:26,790 --> 01:29:24,000
this it was an article from ray palmer

2453
01:29:28,550 --> 01:29:26,800
back in the 60s he edited flying saucers

2454
01:29:31,030 --> 01:29:28,560
magazine we know of course

2455
01:29:33,189 --> 01:29:31,040
his connection with the shaver mystery

2456
01:29:35,910 --> 01:29:33,199
being the promoter the co-founder of

2457
01:29:38,470 --> 01:29:35,920
fate magazine and by the way he's also

2458
01:29:40,149 --> 01:29:38,480
the name of a comic book character the

2459
01:29:42,470 --> 01:29:40,159
character that

2460
01:29:43,270 --> 01:29:42,480
brandon ralph plays

2461
01:29:46,709 --> 01:29:43,280
in

2462
01:29:48,709 --> 01:29:46,719
legends of tomorrow and arrow and flash

2463
01:29:51,750 --> 01:29:48,719
ray palmer

2464
01:29:53,910 --> 01:29:51,760
that character for the comic book figure

2465
01:29:56,550 --> 01:29:53,920
atom atom

2466
01:29:58,950 --> 01:29:56,560
with periods after each letter

2467
01:30:01,910 --> 01:29:58,960
was named after the real ray palmer by

2468
01:30:04,149 --> 01:30:01,920
the person who created that character so

2469
01:30:05,830 --> 01:30:04,159
there we go okay palmer did an article

2470
01:30:08,310 --> 01:30:05,840
the ray palmer were talking about the

2471
01:30:09,830 --> 01:30:08,320
real person the sci-fi writer and the

2472
01:30:11,590 --> 01:30:09,840
paranormal writer

2473
01:30:14,550 --> 01:30:11,600
about whether

2474
01:30:18,310 --> 01:30:14,560
on other planets they see ufos too and

2475
01:30:21,110 --> 01:30:18,320
it was part of his theory that ufos

2476
01:30:22,709 --> 01:30:21,120
were a phenomenon intrinsic to the earth

2477
01:30:24,629 --> 01:30:22,719
and therefore if you lived on another

2478
01:30:27,270 --> 01:30:24,639
planet maybe you have your own

2479
01:30:29,510 --> 01:30:27,280
kind of ufos there let's go into more of

2480
01:30:31,350 --> 01:30:29,520
that and more and more listener

2481
01:30:38,229 --> 01:30:31,360
questions of micah hanks with gene and

2482
01:30:38,239 --> 01:30:42,950
thank you for listening to gcn

2483
01:30:46,130 --> 01:30:43,790
visit

2484
01:30:47,510 --> 01:30:46,140
gcnlive.com today

2485
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coalition for freedom of information and

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you are listening to the paracast

2595
01:35:03,590 --> 01:35:02,159
with gene and chris and the power cast i

2596
01:35:05,189 --> 01:35:03,600
raised this

2597
01:35:07,750 --> 01:35:05,199
left field question about what ray

2598
01:35:12,149 --> 01:35:07,760
palmer said so many years ago

2599
01:35:14,629 --> 01:35:12,159
so if just as a theory if ufos are

2600
01:35:16,870 --> 01:35:14,639
native to earth in some way breakaway

2601
01:35:18,870 --> 01:35:16,880
civilization whatever would that mean

2602
01:35:21,590 --> 01:35:18,880
that beings living on other planets have

2603
01:35:23,270 --> 01:35:21,600
their own ufos to deal with

2604
01:35:25,430 --> 01:35:23,280
that's a great question

2605
01:35:26,629 --> 01:35:25,440
uh you know i think i've been impossible

2606
01:35:28,709 --> 01:35:26,639
to answer

2607
01:35:30,550 --> 01:35:28,719
it i know that but it's fun to think

2608
01:35:31,590 --> 01:35:30,560
about well it is fun to think about and

2609
01:35:33,189 --> 01:35:31,600
it's important you know here's the

2610
01:35:34,870 --> 01:35:33,199
here's the interesting thing it brings

2611
01:35:37,830 --> 01:35:34,880
it back to sci-fi in that sense of

2612
01:35:39,750 --> 01:35:37,840
course ray palmer's belief in what ufos

2613
01:35:41,590 --> 01:35:39,760
may or may not have been incredibly

2614
01:35:43,189 --> 01:35:41,600
fueled by science fiction i mean for

2615
01:35:44,870 --> 01:35:43,199
pete's sake this guy was editor of

2616
01:35:45,750 --> 01:35:44,880
amazing stories you know he goes on to

2617
01:35:47,350 --> 01:35:45,760
found

2618
01:35:49,830 --> 01:35:47,360
a magazine that reportedly dealt with

2619
01:35:52,310 --> 01:35:49,840
this phenomenon in a in a real world way

2620
01:35:54,870 --> 01:35:52,320
and not just in in the sense of the uh

2621
01:35:57,110 --> 01:35:54,880
the phenomena of science fiction fate of

2622
01:35:58,790 --> 01:35:57,120
course being that magazine but uh you

2623
01:36:00,149 --> 01:35:58,800
know when we look at

2624
01:36:02,229 --> 01:36:00,159
the way that science fiction kind of

2625
01:36:03,910 --> 01:36:02,239
fuels interest in these sorts of things

2626
01:36:07,189 --> 01:36:03,920
i mean yeah ray palmer was was certainly

2627
01:36:08,790 --> 01:36:07,199
no exception uh and and on that note

2628
01:36:10,629 --> 01:36:08,800
science fiction has

2629
01:36:12,950 --> 01:36:10,639
in a speculative sense and in the fun

2630
01:36:14,550 --> 01:36:12,960
that we have with it it often has also

2631
01:36:16,870 --> 01:36:14,560
fueled innovation you know arthur c

2632
01:36:18,070 --> 01:36:16,880
clarke i think in in his works predicted

2633
01:36:19,110 --> 01:36:18,080
the creation of numerous things of

2634
01:36:21,030 --> 01:36:19,120
course we know famously the

2635
01:36:21,990 --> 01:36:21,040
telecommunications satellite but we also

2636
01:36:23,910 --> 01:36:22,000
see in

2637
01:36:25,669 --> 01:36:23,920
kubrick's 2001 a space odyssey there on

2638
01:36:27,590 --> 01:36:25,679
the clavius moon base

2639
01:36:29,189 --> 01:36:27,600
uh you know the conversation with the uh

2640
01:36:31,030 --> 01:36:29,199
the gentleman's daughter where she

2641
01:36:33,030 --> 01:36:31,040
requests a bush baby

2642
01:36:35,830 --> 01:36:33,040
as a gift and we're basically seeing

2643
01:36:37,110 --> 01:36:35,840
skype right there um so

2644
01:36:39,669 --> 01:36:37,120
it is interesting because we do see a

2645
01:36:42,070 --> 01:36:39,679
lot of of technology that maybe one

2646
01:36:44,629 --> 01:36:42,080
would say are inevitable uh but by the

2647
01:36:46,310 --> 01:36:44,639
same token they appear in sci-fi usually

2648
01:36:48,870 --> 01:36:46,320
a few decades before they actually come

2649
01:36:51,270 --> 01:36:48,880
to fruition in the real world now

2650
01:36:53,350 --> 01:36:51,280
it is interesting to me that palmer's uh

2651
01:36:55,990 --> 01:36:53,360
interest in ufos

2652
01:36:58,229 --> 01:36:56,000
was fueled by the science fiction and

2653
01:36:58,950 --> 01:36:58,239
what uh at least according to some was

2654
01:37:01,109 --> 01:36:58,960
uh

2655
01:37:03,750 --> 01:37:01,119
maybe in that that twilight realm that

2656
01:37:05,590 --> 01:37:03,760
kind of exists between facts and fiction

2657
01:37:08,950 --> 01:37:05,600
coming back to richard sharp shaver and

2658
01:37:10,950 --> 01:37:08,960
his submission to palmer of a manuscript

2659
01:37:12,870 --> 01:37:10,960
i think it was called a warning to

2660
01:37:15,189 --> 01:37:12,880
future humankind but when it was

2661
01:37:16,950 --> 01:37:15,199
revamped and and reloaded for

2662
01:37:18,709 --> 01:37:16,960
publication palmer recalled it i

2663
01:37:21,030 --> 01:37:18,719
remember lemuria

2664
01:37:23,109 --> 01:37:21,040
and um this was of course what began the

2665
01:37:24,790 --> 01:37:23,119
very popular at the time shaver mystery

2666
01:37:26,709 --> 01:37:24,800
which did deal with these darrows the

2667
01:37:28,709 --> 01:37:26,719
detrimental robots and then the the

2668
01:37:30,870 --> 01:37:28,719
tarots this warring faction between good

2669
01:37:33,109 --> 01:37:30,880
and evil that was occurring where

2670
01:37:35,270 --> 01:37:33,119
underground yes and the hollow earth

2671
01:37:37,350 --> 01:37:35,280
mankind has a long history of interest

2672
01:37:39,030 --> 01:37:37,360
with uh the hollow earth and you know

2673
01:37:40,709 --> 01:37:39,040
with the belief that there were

2674
01:37:42,950 --> 01:37:40,719
entrances to the hollow earth located

2675
01:37:44,149 --> 01:37:42,960
perhaps in the in the polar extremities

2676
01:37:45,830 --> 01:37:44,159
of our planet

2677
01:37:47,590 --> 01:37:45,840
and that they could be entered and

2678
01:37:49,510 --> 01:37:47,600
traversed and that presumably therefore

2679
01:37:51,510 --> 01:37:49,520
maybe they were inhabited just as well

2680
01:37:54,070 --> 01:37:51,520
um whether or not this was an idea that

2681
01:37:55,590 --> 01:37:54,080
just you know that shaver came upon or

2682
01:37:57,590 --> 01:37:55,600
if he had been influenced by something

2683
01:37:59,590 --> 01:37:57,600
else he seems to interpret mentally and

2684
01:38:01,830 --> 01:37:59,600
stable though he was

2685
01:38:03,750 --> 01:38:01,840
there to be some truth to his belief in

2686
01:38:04,950 --> 01:38:03,760
their being beings existing underground

2687
01:38:07,030 --> 01:38:04,960
and i think that

2688
01:38:09,430 --> 01:38:07,040
he stated pretty explicitly in the years

2689
01:38:10,790 --> 01:38:09,440
afterward ray palmer uh having spent

2690
01:38:12,229 --> 01:38:10,800
time with shaver having gone to visit

2691
01:38:13,430 --> 01:38:12,239
with him you know stayed there with him

2692
01:38:15,030 --> 01:38:13,440
at his house

2693
01:38:17,590 --> 01:38:15,040
i think palmer was pretty convinced that

2694
01:38:20,229 --> 01:38:17,600
the answer to the ufo phenomena lay in

2695
01:38:22,229 --> 01:38:20,239
some of shaver's theories and yet by the

2696
01:38:24,229 --> 01:38:22,239
same token as credulous as that idea may

2697
01:38:25,750 --> 01:38:24,239
seem uh it's interesting for a couple of

2698
01:38:28,149 --> 01:38:25,760
reasons because a first of all george

2699
01:38:29,510 --> 01:38:28,159
adamski's book that would later become

2700
01:38:31,109 --> 01:38:29,520
what was the title of the book was it

2701
01:38:32,229 --> 01:38:31,119
called uh it wasn't behind the flying

2702
01:38:34,229 --> 01:38:32,239
saucers was it the one that was

2703
01:38:36,709 --> 01:38:34,239
co-authored with desmond leslie the

2704
01:38:38,229 --> 01:38:36,719
flying saucers have landed that's the

2705
01:38:40,390 --> 01:38:38,239
one yeah that's what i'm thinking of

2706
01:38:42,470 --> 01:38:40,400
palmer said that that manuscript had

2707
01:38:44,310 --> 01:38:42,480
been submitted to him at amazing stories

2708
01:38:46,470 --> 01:38:44,320
years beforehand and that after the

2709
01:38:47,910 --> 01:38:46,480
flying saucer craze broke that he

2710
01:38:49,830 --> 01:38:47,920
changed i believe the character's name

2711
01:38:52,070 --> 01:38:49,840
was orton i think and um

2712
01:38:53,990 --> 01:38:52,080
and the flying saucer that he lands in

2713
01:38:55,750 --> 01:38:54,000
and it had initially just been a more uh

2714
01:38:58,310 --> 01:38:55,760
kind of a generic spaceship and it had

2715
01:38:59,669 --> 01:38:58,320
been jesus christ himself piloting it in

2716
01:39:01,990 --> 01:38:59,679
the manuscript

2717
01:39:03,350 --> 01:39:02,000
the pre-saucer era manuscript mind you

2718
01:39:04,550 --> 01:39:03,360
that was sent to ray palmer and he

2719
01:39:06,310 --> 01:39:04,560
talked about that on the long john

2720
01:39:07,910 --> 01:39:06,320
neville radio show there's a recording

2721
01:39:09,109 --> 01:39:07,920
of that interview that can be found on

2722
01:39:10,870 --> 01:39:09,119
youtube today

2723
01:39:12,149 --> 01:39:10,880
you know palmer said always have doubted

2724
01:39:14,070 --> 01:39:12,159
george damsky i don't believe his

2725
01:39:15,830 --> 01:39:14,080
stories at all and here's why which is

2726
01:39:17,910 --> 01:39:15,840
pretty interesting because he absolutely

2727
01:39:20,149 --> 01:39:17,920
believed for some reason in shaver and

2728
01:39:21,990 --> 01:39:20,159
shaver's stories nonetheless it led

2729
01:39:23,830 --> 01:39:22,000
palmer to the conclusion that ufos

2730
01:39:26,229 --> 01:39:23,840
whatever they may be were probably not

2731
01:39:28,149 --> 01:39:26,239
interplanetary it was this strange kind

2732
01:39:29,830 --> 01:39:28,159
of cult of ideology you know between the

2733
01:39:31,910 --> 01:39:29,840
idea of something from within the earth

2734
01:39:34,310 --> 01:39:31,920
and something from outside the earth the

2735
01:39:35,830 --> 01:39:34,320
adamskis versus the shavers and palmer

2736
01:39:37,030 --> 01:39:35,840
very much went you know in the direction

2737
01:39:38,629 --> 01:39:37,040
of shaver and the idea whatever these

2738
01:39:40,709 --> 01:39:38,639
things are the answer to the ufo

2739
01:39:43,350 --> 01:39:40,719
phenomena will be found here on terra

2740
01:39:46,070 --> 01:39:43,360
firma kind of interesting well of course

2741
01:39:48,390 --> 01:39:46,080
we can follow the legends of the holes

2742
01:39:49,830 --> 01:39:48,400
of the poles back even to edgar

2743
01:39:53,270 --> 01:39:49,840
riceborough's

2744
01:39:55,109 --> 01:39:53,280
some of his earlier sci-fi stories even

2745
01:39:56,310 --> 01:39:55,119
at the time he was writing tarzan he was

2746
01:39:58,390 --> 01:39:56,320
also writing

2747
01:40:00,310 --> 01:39:58,400
john carter of mars the palestinian

2748
01:40:01,830 --> 01:40:00,320
stories which involved

2749
01:40:03,189 --> 01:40:01,840
going through

2750
01:40:05,430 --> 01:40:03,199
the inner earth

2751
01:40:07,830 --> 01:40:05,440
so this is something that

2752
01:40:10,629 --> 01:40:07,840
was not unusual and when palmer started

2753
01:40:12,310 --> 01:40:10,639
talking about it i thought of edgar rice

2754
01:40:14,709 --> 01:40:12,320
burroughs and of course palmer knew

2755
01:40:16,870 --> 01:40:14,719
edgar rice burrows and was responsible

2756
01:40:19,109 --> 01:40:16,880
for persuading burroughs to write some

2757
01:40:20,390 --> 01:40:19,119
of his final stories for amazing stories

2758
01:40:22,310 --> 01:40:20,400
magazine

2759
01:40:25,189 --> 01:40:22,320
yep jules verne as well journeys to the

2760
01:40:26,709 --> 01:40:25,199
center of the earth sure

2761
01:40:28,070 --> 01:40:26,719
yeah yeah again there are a lot of these

2762
01:40:29,590 --> 01:40:28,080
i mean you know some would take it all

2763
01:40:30,790 --> 01:40:29,600
the way back to dante although that was

2764
01:40:32,149 --> 01:40:30,800
obviously a much more kind of a

2765
01:40:34,229 --> 01:40:32,159
metaphysical

2766
01:40:35,910 --> 01:40:34,239
uh interpretation nonetheless there is

2767
01:40:37,510 --> 01:40:35,920
still the difference between ascending

2768
01:40:39,910 --> 01:40:37,520
into the sky and then descending down

2769
01:40:42,550 --> 01:40:39,920
into the earth but that also leads you

2770
01:40:44,550 --> 01:40:42,560
to the connection of another

2771
01:40:46,709 --> 01:40:44,560
civilization here

2772
01:40:48,790 --> 01:40:46,719
therefore it's in the same framework as

2773
01:40:50,390 --> 01:40:48,800
a breakaway civilization

2774
01:40:51,830 --> 01:40:50,400
right you know again a breakaway

2775
01:40:53,510 --> 01:40:51,840
civilization

2776
01:40:55,189 --> 01:40:53,520
i think by definition i think richard

2777
01:40:57,669 --> 01:40:55,199
dolan when he when he first put that

2778
01:40:59,270 --> 01:40:57,679
idea forward uh it certainly was fueled

2779
01:41:02,149 --> 01:40:59,280
by the idea that there have been you

2780
01:41:04,629 --> 01:41:02,159
know you know special programs privately

2781
01:41:06,149 --> 01:41:04,639
or secretly funded uh in certain in some

2782
01:41:07,430 --> 01:41:06,159
way whether that be through black

2783
01:41:10,310 --> 01:41:07,440
budgets

2784
01:41:11,910 --> 01:41:10,320
or again the idea that there may be

2785
01:41:14,629 --> 01:41:11,920
and it's funny because i often hear

2786
01:41:16,149 --> 01:41:14,639
people say well what kind of a group

2787
01:41:18,550 --> 01:41:16,159
what kind of anybody would have that

2788
01:41:20,070 --> 01:41:18,560
kind of funny funding what kind of an

2789
01:41:21,189 --> 01:41:20,080
extra governmental group would have

2790
01:41:23,669 --> 01:41:21,199
enough money to be able to fund

2791
01:41:25,270 --> 01:41:23,679
something so large but

2792
01:41:26,629 --> 01:41:25,280
i wouldn't rule that possibility out in

2793
01:41:28,470 --> 01:41:26,639
the least and uh you know there have

2794
01:41:30,390 --> 01:41:28,480
been a number of interesting proponents

2795
01:41:32,070 --> 01:41:30,400
of the of the possible funding

2796
01:41:34,149 --> 01:41:32,080
mechanisms underlying a so-called

2797
01:41:35,590 --> 01:41:34,159
breakaway civilization which is kind of

2798
01:41:37,030 --> 01:41:35,600
despite her background i guess in

2799
01:41:39,590 --> 01:41:37,040
business and finance it's kind of

2800
01:41:40,870 --> 01:41:39,600
brought the uh character known i

2801
01:41:42,470 --> 01:41:40,880
shouldn't say character i have a lot of

2802
01:41:44,390 --> 01:41:42,480
respect for this this individual but

2803
01:41:46,629 --> 01:41:44,400
katherine austin fitz

2804
01:41:48,390 --> 01:41:46,639
she uh again doesn't seem to come at

2805
01:41:50,709 --> 01:41:48,400
this from a ufo angle she's not a

2806
01:41:52,149 --> 01:41:50,719
popular ufo author she wrote an article

2807
01:41:54,070 --> 01:41:52,159
a number of years ago called what's up

2808
01:41:55,270 --> 01:41:54,080
with the black budget and um

2809
01:41:56,070 --> 01:41:55,280
in that article claimed that you know a

2810
01:41:58,149 --> 01:41:56,080
friend of hers who had been a

2811
01:42:00,390 --> 01:41:58,159
high-ranking military official at one

2812
01:42:02,149 --> 01:42:00,400
point uh it asked her i think to be on a

2813
01:42:05,590 --> 01:42:02,159
panel that would be looking at uh you

2814
01:42:07,350 --> 01:42:05,600
know what how and how to deal with a ufo

2815
01:42:08,790 --> 01:42:07,360
issue were one to arise here in the

2816
01:42:10,470 --> 01:42:08,800
future if aliens were to touch down and

2817
01:42:11,910 --> 01:42:10,480
she kind of asked why would we be

2818
01:42:13,830 --> 01:42:11,920
putting you know interest into something

2819
01:42:15,830 --> 01:42:13,840
like this and she was given the she was

2820
01:42:17,430 --> 01:42:15,840
given the impression by the those uh who

2821
01:42:19,669 --> 01:42:17,440
had invited her to be a part of this

2822
01:42:21,590 --> 01:42:19,679
panel uh that this would be something

2823
01:42:23,189 --> 01:42:21,600
that would potentially be a ver very

2824
01:42:25,109 --> 01:42:23,199
serious importance in the coming years

2825
01:42:27,270 --> 01:42:25,119
and then was asked famously would you

2826
01:42:29,590 --> 01:42:27,280
like to meet some aliens and she's uh

2827
01:42:30,790 --> 01:42:29,600
she declined at the time

2828
01:42:32,870 --> 01:42:30,800
it's interesting because now i'm seeing

2829
01:42:34,870 --> 01:42:32,880
that a lot of people actually uh cite

2830
01:42:36,790 --> 01:42:34,880
catherine austin fitz and she's made

2831
01:42:39,430 --> 01:42:36,800
appearances at different events related

2832
01:42:42,470 --> 01:42:39,440
to the idea of a breakaway civilization

2833
01:42:45,430 --> 01:42:42,480
um and more and more people who are who

2834
01:42:48,070 --> 01:42:45,440
are not directly related to the ufo uh

2835
01:42:49,430 --> 01:42:48,080
field of study uh ufology as it were are

2836
01:42:50,870 --> 01:42:49,440
are kind of finding their way into it

2837
01:42:52,870 --> 01:42:50,880
because there do seem to be parallels

2838
01:42:54,550 --> 01:42:52,880
that emerge joseph farrell is one peter

2839
01:42:56,629 --> 01:42:54,560
lavender who i spoke with recently and a

2840
01:42:58,870 --> 01:42:56,639
fascinating guy most of his research has

2841
01:43:00,310 --> 01:42:58,880
to do with the nazi occult mythos but he

2842
01:43:02,070 --> 01:43:00,320
actually reached out to me a while back

2843
01:43:03,990 --> 01:43:02,080
because i was looking at some of these

2844
01:43:05,270 --> 01:43:04,000
you know stories from latin american

2845
01:43:07,350 --> 01:43:05,280
countries especially that have to do

2846
01:43:09,430 --> 01:43:07,360
with ufos he had been to chile in the

2847
01:43:12,149 --> 01:43:09,440
1970s and had actually visited a place

2848
01:43:13,590 --> 01:43:12,159
in 1979 called colonia dignidot and it's

2849
01:43:15,270 --> 01:43:13,600
one of many instances where we see

2850
01:43:17,270 --> 01:43:15,280
evidence of nazis having escaped to

2851
01:43:18,790 --> 01:43:17,280
south america there are some

2852
01:43:21,030 --> 01:43:18,800
you know threads that seem to suggest

2853
01:43:22,629 --> 01:43:21,040
that there are technological components

2854
01:43:24,870 --> 01:43:22,639
to some of that and i think that this

2855
01:43:26,790 --> 01:43:24,880
kind of area of thought i know joseph

2856
01:43:28,550 --> 01:43:26,800
farrell has even written in his books

2857
01:43:30,310 --> 01:43:28,560
although he brings up things that are

2858
01:43:32,550 --> 01:43:30,320
very closely related to ufos farrell

2859
01:43:34,390 --> 01:43:32,560
told me a few years ago ufos aren't a

2860
01:43:36,550 --> 01:43:34,400
primary interest of him but he to an

2861
01:43:38,709 --> 01:43:36,560
extent has almost had to get involved in

2862
01:43:39,669 --> 01:43:38,719
certain areas of ufo research because of

2863
01:43:41,189 --> 01:43:39,679
he said

2864
01:43:42,629 --> 01:43:41,199
their relation to other things that he

2865
01:43:44,870 --> 01:43:42,639
is interested in which primarily has to

2866
01:43:46,950 --> 01:43:44,880
do with you know black budget funding

2867
01:43:48,229 --> 01:43:46,960
and and financial uh streams maybe

2868
01:43:50,070 --> 01:43:48,239
coming from behind the scenes some of

2869
01:43:52,149 --> 01:43:50,080
this he actually ties back to the nazis

2870
01:43:53,990 --> 01:43:52,159
and post-world war ii operations that

2871
01:43:56,149 --> 01:43:54,000
some of them may have been involved with

2872
01:43:58,629 --> 01:43:56,159
so uh you know whatever it is this this

2873
01:44:00,629 --> 01:43:58,639
ongoing uh you know some of the really

2874
01:44:02,310 --> 01:44:00,639
good serious hard historical research

2875
01:44:04,070 --> 01:44:02,320
some of it certainly kind of steeped in

2876
01:44:06,149 --> 01:44:04,080
speculation and whatnot with these kind

2877
01:44:07,910 --> 01:44:06,159
of researchers coming together whether

2878
01:44:09,270 --> 01:44:07,920
independently or conversing amidst

2879
01:44:11,750 --> 01:44:09,280
themselves or maybe just you know their

2880
01:44:13,270 --> 01:44:11,760
works coming to the attention of people

2881
01:44:15,189 --> 01:44:13,280
like us who read these kind of books and

2882
01:44:17,350 --> 01:44:15,199
are multifaceted in our interests this

2883
01:44:18,790 --> 01:44:17,360
notion of a breakaway civilization and

2884
01:44:20,390 --> 01:44:18,800
generally as richard dolan i think

2885
01:44:22,149 --> 01:44:20,400
intended it one with some sort of an

2886
01:44:23,189 --> 01:44:22,159
advanced technological component has

2887
01:44:25,430 --> 01:44:23,199
become

2888
01:44:27,669 --> 01:44:25,440
i think one of the more popular

2889
01:44:29,350 --> 01:44:27,679
motifs that is presented in the study of

2890
01:44:30,870 --> 01:44:29,360
ufos in the modern era so i don't know

2891
01:44:32,709 --> 01:44:30,880
maybe people are kind of coming around

2892
01:44:34,629 --> 01:44:32,719
to the idea that whatever the ufo

2893
01:44:36,229 --> 01:44:34,639
phenomena is maybe it's nothing so far

2894
01:44:37,430 --> 01:44:36,239
out in spacey maybe it is from right

2895
01:44:38,870 --> 01:44:37,440
here although

2896
01:44:40,790 --> 01:44:38,880
many proponents of a breakaway

2897
01:44:42,790 --> 01:44:40,800
civilization maintain nonetheless that

2898
01:44:44,950 --> 01:44:42,800
the technologies driving

2899
01:44:47,510 --> 01:44:44,960
this civilization actually probably were

2900
01:44:49,430 --> 01:44:47,520
captured technologies i.e roswell

2901
01:44:51,109 --> 01:44:49,440
you know wherever so you know the idea

2902
01:44:53,510 --> 01:44:51,119
of some sort of crash retrieval and back

2903
01:44:54,950 --> 01:44:53,520
engineering bob lazar kind of stuff so

2904
01:44:58,149 --> 01:44:54,960
you know it's really kind of interesting

2905
01:44:59,750 --> 01:44:58,159
because the various uf ufological mythos

2906
01:45:01,350 --> 01:44:59,760
that have been presented over the years

2907
01:45:02,870 --> 01:45:01,360
they kind of tend to overlap at times

2908
01:45:04,310 --> 01:45:02,880
they really do

2909
01:45:07,350 --> 01:45:04,320
we'll get into more of breakaway

2910
01:45:09,510 --> 01:45:07,360
civilizations your questions and maybe

2911
01:45:12,310 --> 01:45:09,520
some of the

2912
01:45:14,950 --> 01:45:12,320
false trails of 2015

2913
01:45:17,750 --> 01:45:14,960
i can think of a subject that shall not

2914
01:45:19,430 --> 01:45:17,760
be named

2915
01:45:22,629 --> 01:45:19,440
mike i think knows what we're talking

2916
01:45:28,950 --> 01:45:22,639
about with gene and chris you're in the

2917
01:45:33,070 --> 01:45:32,229
thank you for listening to gcn

2918
01:45:37,430 --> 01:45:33,080
visit

2919
01:45:41,270 --> 01:45:39,189
first game attack of the rockoids and it

2920
01:45:42,550 --> 01:45:41,280
was a critically acclaimed success and

2921
01:45:44,470 --> 01:45:42,560
now there is the coming of the

2922
01:45:46,709 --> 01:45:44,480
protectors a former military

2923
01:45:48,870 --> 01:45:46,719
intelligence man is contacted by a space

2924
01:45:51,430 --> 01:45:48,880
woman in a dream a dream that turns out

2925
01:45:53,109 --> 01:45:51,440
to be a nightmare because evil forces on

2926
01:45:55,270 --> 01:45:53,119
her distant planet are planning to

2927
01:45:57,830 --> 01:45:55,280
conquer the earth this is gripping

2928
01:45:59,669 --> 01:45:57,840
science fiction of the classic kind

2929
01:46:01,709 --> 01:45:59,679
attack of the rockoids and the coming of

2930
01:46:03,910 --> 01:46:01,719
the protectors find out more at

2931
01:46:05,990 --> 01:46:03,920
rockoaids.com that's rockoids

2932
01:46:07,030 --> 01:46:06,000
r-o-c-k-o-i-d-s

2933
01:46:08,870 --> 01:46:07,040
dot com

2934
01:46:11,830 --> 01:46:08,880
so here's what happened i was placing an

2935
01:46:14,149 --> 01:46:11,840
order online the site went down it took

2936
01:46:15,910 --> 01:46:14,159
hours before it returned but i'd already

2937
01:46:17,910 --> 01:46:15,920
placed the order with another company if

2938
01:46:19,669 --> 01:46:17,920
your site goes down you could lose

2939
01:46:21,750 --> 01:46:19,679
business and if you have a business or

2940
01:46:24,709 --> 01:46:21,760
personal site you'll want to know it's

2941
01:46:27,910 --> 01:46:24,719
easy to run and it will stay online at

2942
01:46:30,870 --> 01:46:27,920
iweb your site is hosted on one of the

2943
01:46:34,070 --> 01:46:30,880
most reliable networks in the world talk

2944
01:46:35,990 --> 01:46:34,080
to a sales rep at iweb.com use the promo

2945
01:46:40,070 --> 01:46:36,000
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2946
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2947
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2948
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2949
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to all diseases since poor diet injuries

2950
01:46:51,590 --> 01:46:49,920
or stress are all contributing factors

2951
01:46:52,709 --> 01:46:51,600
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2952
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2953
01:46:55,830 --> 01:46:54,239
neutralizing the inflammation and the

2954
01:46:57,669 --> 01:46:55,840
pain that it may be causing is

2955
01:46:59,350 --> 01:46:57,679
glutathione glutathione is the body's

2956
01:47:01,590 --> 01:46:59,360
number one peptide to neutralize free

2957
01:47:04,070 --> 01:47:01,600
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2958
01:47:05,990 --> 01:47:04,080
my name is jason i'm 44 years old for 10

2959
01:47:08,310 --> 01:47:06,000
years i have been suffering from chronic

2960
01:47:10,550 --> 01:47:08,320
pain in my abdomen and groin that

2961
01:47:12,550 --> 01:47:10,560
radiated down into my feet after three

2962
01:47:15,030 --> 01:47:12,560
weeks on one world way the pain in my

2963
01:47:17,350 --> 01:47:15,040
feet reduced by 50 and the overall pain

2964
01:47:18,950 --> 01:47:17,360
in my body reduced significantly as well

2965
01:47:21,270 --> 01:47:18,960
i ran out of one world weight and the

2966
01:47:23,350 --> 01:47:21,280
pain returned i got another container

2967
01:47:25,669 --> 01:47:23,360
and again after three weeks the pain

2968
01:47:27,750 --> 01:47:25,679
reduced significantly throughout my body

2969
01:47:29,750 --> 01:47:27,760
i'd highly recommend one world way to

2970
01:47:32,030 --> 01:47:29,760
anyone dealing with chronic pain due to

2971
01:47:34,830 --> 01:47:32,040
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2972
01:47:37,350 --> 01:47:34,840
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2973
01:47:40,020 --> 01:47:37,360
oneworldway.com that's one world wh ey

2974
01:47:40,030 --> 01:47:45,910
[Music]

2975
01:47:52,870 --> 01:47:49,189
welcome back to the paracast the gold

2976
01:47:54,070 --> 01:47:52,880
standard of paranormal radio

2977
01:48:01,270 --> 01:47:54,080
and now

2978
01:48:05,430 --> 01:48:03,590
all right four more segments of the show

2979
01:48:07,750 --> 01:48:05,440
coming to an assessment of where we are

2980
01:48:09,070 --> 01:48:07,760
where we can go with micah hanks of the

2981
01:48:11,430 --> 01:48:09,080
grayley report go to

2982
01:48:14,550 --> 01:48:11,440
grayleyandreport.com to learn more about

2983
01:48:16,790 --> 01:48:14,560
his radio show and about his columns

2984
01:48:18,950 --> 01:48:16,800
okay i think as a listener question

2985
01:48:21,030 --> 01:48:18,960
about this chris isn't there the subject

2986
01:48:23,750 --> 01:48:21,040
that shall not be named the roswell

2987
01:48:25,750 --> 01:48:23,760
slides or the not roswell slides

2988
01:48:28,870 --> 01:48:25,760
do you think that was one of the

2989
01:48:30,390 --> 01:48:28,880
real bad points of the past year i

2990
01:48:32,470 --> 01:48:30,400
certainly think it was the most

2991
01:48:34,950 --> 01:48:32,480
significant ufo headline of the year

2992
01:48:36,950 --> 01:48:34,960
isn't that sad

2993
01:48:40,470 --> 01:48:36,960
let me clarify the most significant ufo

2994
01:48:41,830 --> 01:48:40,480
run story yeah it wasn't on story but i

2995
01:48:43,830 --> 01:48:41,840
you know what i've talked about this on

2996
01:48:45,270 --> 01:48:43,840
a number of radio shows um i guess

2997
01:48:47,030 --> 01:48:45,280
people are somewhat puzzled why i would

2998
01:48:48,229 --> 01:48:47,040
say that that's the most significant ufo

2999
01:48:49,669 --> 01:48:48,239
story of the year

3000
01:48:52,390 --> 01:48:49,679
i think it was the ufo story that got

3001
01:48:53,750 --> 01:48:52,400
the most attention uh it was a story

3002
01:48:56,070 --> 01:48:53,760
which

3003
01:48:57,590 --> 01:48:56,080
you know sadly taught i hope the

3004
01:48:59,590 --> 01:48:57,600
research community

3005
01:49:00,470 --> 01:48:59,600
a lot more about what not

3006
01:49:02,390 --> 01:49:00,480
to do

3007
01:49:04,229 --> 01:49:02,400
than what they should be doing as far as

3008
01:49:06,149 --> 01:49:04,239
ufo research goes you know there's some

3009
01:49:07,030 --> 01:49:06,159
people who are who became involved with

3010
01:49:08,470 --> 01:49:07,040
that

3011
01:49:09,590 --> 01:49:08,480
who who i have a lot of respect for

3012
01:49:11,510 --> 01:49:09,600
there are some individuals who were

3013
01:49:13,109 --> 01:49:11,520
involved with that that i don't know

3014
01:49:16,149 --> 01:49:13,119
from adam's housecat and others who i've

3015
01:49:18,629 --> 01:49:16,159
always turned my skeptical eye toward

3016
01:49:20,310 --> 01:49:18,639
i have to look for adam's house cat

3017
01:49:22,310 --> 01:49:20,320
yeah keep an eye out he's been missing

3018
01:49:25,590 --> 01:49:22,320
for years actually i think he's out

3019
01:49:28,790 --> 01:49:25,600
front here having breakfast oh really

3020
01:49:30,149 --> 01:49:28,800
there is a cat that has decided to

3021
01:49:32,070 --> 01:49:30,159
hang out here

3022
01:49:33,510 --> 01:49:32,080
outside

3023
01:49:35,189 --> 01:49:33,520
his location has finally been

3024
01:49:37,669 --> 01:49:35,199
triangulated

3025
01:49:40,310 --> 01:49:37,679
well that's good to know okay adam your

3026
01:49:42,709 --> 01:49:40,320
house cat is here well but that said

3027
01:49:44,229 --> 01:49:42,719
we'll take a reward

3028
01:49:48,390 --> 01:49:44,239
yes

3029
01:49:50,790 --> 01:49:48,400
adam's housecat contact jean steinberg

3030
01:49:53,030 --> 01:49:50,800
at the paracast better yet post it in

3031
01:49:54,709 --> 01:49:53,040
forums.theparacast.com

3032
01:49:56,310 --> 01:49:54,719
but uh i would i would maintain yeah

3033
01:49:58,310 --> 01:49:56,320
again that it was a significant story it

3034
01:49:59,590 --> 01:49:58,320
taught us a lot about what not to do

3035
01:50:00,790 --> 01:49:59,600
i i

3036
01:50:02,070 --> 01:50:00,800
i'm sad to hear i think that there are

3037
01:50:04,229 --> 01:50:02,080
certain people who've been involved with

3038
01:50:05,750 --> 01:50:04,239
the roswell slides debacle that somewhat

3039
01:50:07,750 --> 01:50:05,760
maintain that there may be still

3040
01:50:09,750 --> 01:50:07,760
legitimacy to those slides

3041
01:50:12,470 --> 01:50:09,760
that is simply not the case that that

3042
01:50:13,830 --> 01:50:12,480
was a mummy uh the thing

3043
01:50:16,629 --> 01:50:13,840
you know the

3044
01:50:19,030 --> 01:50:16,639
the blurring technology at our disposal

3045
01:50:20,310 --> 01:50:19,040
today uh has conclusively shown i think

3046
01:50:22,870 --> 01:50:20,320
that it was actually kept what was it

3047
01:50:24,790 --> 01:50:22,880
the mesa verde notes i think from 18 i

3048
01:50:26,470 --> 01:50:24,800
can't remember the year but uh published

3049
01:50:28,390 --> 01:50:26,480
specifically

3050
01:50:29,669 --> 01:50:28,400
even the name of the individual where it

3051
01:50:31,510 --> 01:50:29,679
had been found

3052
01:50:34,390 --> 01:50:31,520
uh and and who it was on loan to the

3053
01:50:36,310 --> 01:50:34,400
museum from and uh that's that but but

3054
01:50:38,629 --> 01:50:36,320
again there was some good research that

3055
01:50:40,310 --> 01:50:38,639
came out of it and i was very proud that

3056
01:50:41,910 --> 01:50:40,320
even before the official release of the

3057
01:50:44,790 --> 01:50:41,920
sliding question

3058
01:50:46,310 --> 01:50:44,800
came about uh independent researchers uh

3059
01:50:48,070 --> 01:50:46,320
greg bishop paul kimball nick redford

3060
01:50:49,830 --> 01:50:48,080
had been working with them and there

3061
01:50:52,629 --> 01:50:49,840
were a number of others just as well

3062
01:50:55,350 --> 01:50:52,639
that had come to a determination within

3063
01:50:56,870 --> 01:50:55,360
24 hours and so what it shows coming

3064
01:50:59,030 --> 01:50:56,880
back to something you said earlier chris

3065
01:51:00,390 --> 01:50:59,040
we need more transparency now in terms

3066
01:51:01,830 --> 01:51:00,400
of government the united states i think

3067
01:51:03,590 --> 01:51:01,840
can learn the most

3068
01:51:05,270 --> 01:51:03,600
uh from other nations when it comes to

3069
01:51:06,790 --> 01:51:05,280
transparency on these kind of issues you

3070
01:51:08,950 --> 01:51:06,800
know study of ufos and anomalous

3071
01:51:11,430 --> 01:51:08,960
phenomena but i think that by the same

3072
01:51:13,030 --> 01:51:11,440
token even on the civilian level when

3073
01:51:15,189 --> 01:51:13,040
there is transparency and there is an

3074
01:51:16,950 --> 01:51:15,199
information withheld from the public

3075
01:51:18,070 --> 01:51:16,960
we might be able to move forward because

3076
01:51:19,990 --> 01:51:18,080
i think that there are people in

3077
01:51:22,709 --> 01:51:20,000
positions of technological profession

3078
01:51:24,310 --> 01:51:22,719
proficiency uh people with certain skill

3079
01:51:26,390 --> 01:51:24,320
sets that may not necessarily be

3080
01:51:28,310 --> 01:51:26,400
directly involved in the ufo phenomena

3081
01:51:29,030 --> 01:51:28,320
the if asked or if

3082
01:51:31,270 --> 01:51:29,040
uh

3083
01:51:33,510 --> 01:51:31,280
put in a position where they had

3084
01:51:35,510 --> 01:51:33,520
certain data in front of them a lot of

3085
01:51:37,910 --> 01:51:35,520
these old cases maybe some more recent

3086
01:51:39,750 --> 01:51:37,920
cases too may we we may come to new

3087
01:51:41,990 --> 01:51:39,760
determinations about them and so that i

3088
01:51:44,149 --> 01:51:42,000
think the need for secrecy

3089
01:51:46,070 --> 01:51:44,159
while important maybe at times is is

3090
01:51:49,030 --> 01:51:46,080
lessened and diminished and the roswell

3091
01:51:51,030 --> 01:51:49,040
slides affair was a good evidence of

3092
01:51:53,510 --> 01:51:51,040
that i'm still

3093
01:51:55,510 --> 01:51:53,520
trying to plumb my sources here at the

3094
01:51:58,149 --> 01:51:55,520
yavapai cultural center to

3095
01:52:00,310 --> 01:51:58,159
get in the back door and pull some dna

3096
01:52:01,669 --> 01:52:00,320
evidence and maybe a selfie with the

3097
01:52:04,070 --> 01:52:01,679
little mummy guy

3098
01:52:04,870 --> 01:52:04,080
one thing that i just i just continually

3099
01:52:07,109 --> 01:52:04,880
him

3100
01:52:08,870 --> 01:52:07,119
whenever that subject came up

3101
01:52:11,830 --> 01:52:08,880
i was just shocked that nobody brought

3102
01:52:13,990 --> 01:52:11,840
up that the thing obviously had been in

3103
01:52:15,189 --> 01:52:14,000
the ground or uh

3104
01:52:20,470 --> 01:52:15,199
had been

3105
01:52:22,390 --> 01:52:20,480
state of desiccation and if this was

3106
01:52:25,109 --> 01:52:22,400
from 1947

3107
01:52:26,470 --> 01:52:25,119
there's no way in the space of a year or

3108
01:52:28,070 --> 01:52:26,480
less that that

3109
01:52:30,149 --> 01:52:28,080
body could have ended up looking like

3110
01:52:32,390 --> 01:52:30,159
that i mean that was one thing that

3111
01:52:35,350 --> 01:52:32,400
nobody hardly ever mentioned

3112
01:52:36,870 --> 01:52:35,360
um which to me just totally trashed any

3113
01:52:39,109 --> 01:52:36,880
sort of uh

3114
01:52:40,870 --> 01:52:39,119
you know possible believability about it

3115
01:52:42,390 --> 01:52:40,880
being some something from roswell

3116
01:52:44,709 --> 01:52:42,400
because i mean it just looked too old

3117
01:52:45,750 --> 01:52:44,719
it'd been obviously uh dead for a long

3118
01:52:47,910 --> 01:52:45,760
long time

3119
01:52:49,430 --> 01:52:47,920
interesting point though that's because

3120
01:52:51,030 --> 01:52:49,440
you being a person who i think you know

3121
01:52:52,550 --> 01:52:51,040
has spent a lot of time in museums and

3122
01:52:54,070 --> 01:52:52,560
been out west and what not you know most

3123
01:52:56,310 --> 01:52:54,080
of your life and have you know spent

3124
01:52:57,910 --> 01:52:56,320
some time around mummified bodies and

3125
01:52:59,589 --> 01:52:57,920
and the like probably presumably i know

3126
01:53:01,910 --> 01:52:59,599
having read some of your books you know

3127
01:53:03,350 --> 01:53:01,920
you would recognize a mummy uh and i

3128
01:53:04,870 --> 01:53:03,360
don't mean to diminish the intelligence

3129
01:53:06,950 --> 01:53:04,880
of anyone involved in that affair but i

3130
01:53:09,510 --> 01:53:06,960
mean for most of us it was obviously a

3131
01:53:10,629 --> 01:53:09,520
mummy i think when people get too ufo

3132
01:53:12,070 --> 01:53:10,639
centric

3133
01:53:13,750 --> 01:53:12,080
in their thoughts and their attitudes

3134
01:53:15,910 --> 01:53:13,760
you know they may not have recognized it

3135
01:53:17,030 --> 01:53:15,920
as what it was so obviously to other

3136
01:53:19,350 --> 01:53:17,040
people and therefore rather than

3137
01:53:20,709 --> 01:53:19,360
resembling a mummy and a desiccated body

3138
01:53:22,950 --> 01:53:20,719
it looked like something that might not

3139
01:53:24,870 --> 01:53:22,960
have been human in which case any mummy

3140
01:53:27,189 --> 01:53:24,880
would look alien to that kind of a

3141
01:53:28,390 --> 01:53:27,199
mindset it seems to you or i but again i

3142
01:53:29,990 --> 01:53:28,400
think that it's important that people

3143
01:53:31,990 --> 01:53:30,000
have a broad and yes they need to have

3144
01:53:33,189 --> 01:53:32,000
an educated background to be able to

3145
01:53:34,790 --> 01:53:33,199
make those determinations of course it

3146
01:53:36,870 --> 01:53:34,800
was obvious to you but you know you know

3147
01:53:38,709 --> 01:53:36,880
what a mummy looks like right well i

3148
01:53:41,189 --> 01:53:38,719
know what what a body looks like after

3149
01:53:42,709 --> 01:53:41,199
it's been in in a desert environment for

3150
01:53:43,830 --> 01:53:42,719
you know an extended period of time i

3151
01:53:46,550 --> 01:53:43,840
mean it it

3152
01:53:49,189 --> 01:53:46,560
it becomes naturally mummified not with

3153
01:53:51,830 --> 01:53:49,199
some sort of egyptian process where they

3154
01:53:54,709 --> 01:53:51,840
embalm the bodies with

3155
01:53:56,470 --> 01:53:54,719
particular types of oils and and uh you

3156
01:53:58,470 --> 01:53:56,480
know herbs and that sort of thing this

3157
01:54:00,629 --> 01:53:58,480
body obviously had been in a very dry

3158
01:54:02,390 --> 01:54:00,639
desert environment for quite some time

3159
01:54:05,030 --> 01:54:02,400
uh it was obvious to me and if it was

3160
01:54:07,030 --> 01:54:05,040
from again from 1947 then that that

3161
01:54:11,109 --> 01:54:07,040
totally trashes any sort of connection

3162
01:54:13,830 --> 01:54:11,119
to a an event from that year but uh i i

3163
01:54:16,229 --> 01:54:13,840
do still uh you know i'm trying

3164
01:54:19,189 --> 01:54:16,239
i'm letting the furore kind of

3165
01:54:21,109 --> 01:54:19,199
wane a little bit around this uh and it

3166
01:54:23,030 --> 01:54:21,119
is kind of fading i think fairly fast

3167
01:54:24,790 --> 01:54:23,040
now and you know i do have a couple of

3168
01:54:26,390 --> 01:54:24,800
connections with the yavapai and i i'm

3169
01:54:27,910 --> 01:54:26,400
i'm still hoping to get in there i mean

3170
01:54:30,310 --> 01:54:27,920
it's literally a half a mile away from

3171
01:54:32,629 --> 01:54:30,320
me so uh i do through the grapevine i

3172
01:54:34,390 --> 01:54:32,639
heard that some tv show showed up uh

3173
01:54:35,510 --> 01:54:34,400
unannounced and tried to get access and

3174
01:54:36,950 --> 01:54:35,520
they were kind of laughed out of the

3175
01:54:38,470 --> 01:54:36,960
building so

3176
01:54:40,950 --> 01:54:38,480
um

3177
01:54:42,470 --> 01:54:40,960
anyway i i think your point is well

3178
01:54:45,510 --> 01:54:42,480
taken that um

3179
01:54:46,950 --> 01:54:45,520
i mean if any good comes from this whole

3180
01:54:49,350 --> 01:54:46,960
episode it is

3181
01:54:50,790 --> 01:54:49,360
uh again as you put it the uh

3182
01:54:52,390 --> 01:54:50,800
you know kind of a reminder of how not

3183
01:54:54,310 --> 01:54:52,400
to do things

3184
01:54:56,790 --> 01:54:54,320
yeah absolutely and that's that's a

3185
01:54:58,390 --> 01:54:56,800
point well taken i might add uh

3186
01:55:00,790 --> 01:54:58,400
yeah we're going to go on to another

3187
01:55:02,629 --> 01:55:00,800
couple of uh of questions here uh here's

3188
01:55:06,149 --> 01:55:02,639
a good one that um

3189
01:55:08,390 --> 01:55:06,159
i don't think we've ever asked you this

3190
01:55:11,109 --> 01:55:08,400
but um

3191
01:55:12,070 --> 01:55:11,119
i i think this is a good question to ask

3192
01:55:14,229 --> 01:55:12,080
and and

3193
01:55:17,270 --> 01:55:14,239
basically it's

3194
01:55:19,629 --> 01:55:17,280
you know it's it's asking the technomage

3195
01:55:21,189 --> 01:55:19,639
who again has been a long time member of

3196
01:55:22,870 --> 01:55:21,199
form.theparacast.com where he asked

3197
01:55:25,430 --> 01:55:22,880
questions of our guests

3198
01:55:27,510 --> 01:55:25,440
and he's asking which case or cases have

3199
01:55:29,990 --> 01:55:27,520
you conducted extensive research on and

3200
01:55:32,390 --> 01:55:30,000
concluded that a paranormal explanation

3201
01:55:34,149 --> 01:55:32,400
is the only logical one

3202
01:55:36,310 --> 01:55:34,159
and and knowing how meticulous you are

3203
01:55:38,070 --> 01:55:36,320
with your investigative work i i i'm

3204
01:55:39,270 --> 01:55:38,080
going to be very interested to hear your

3205
01:55:41,830 --> 01:55:39,280
answer

3206
01:55:43,750 --> 01:55:41,840
well i i've got to be honest i've never

3207
01:55:45,830 --> 01:55:43,760
come to the conclusion with anything

3208
01:55:47,910 --> 01:55:45,840
that i've you know tried to undertake

3209
01:55:49,990 --> 01:55:47,920
any serious rigorous study

3210
01:55:52,070 --> 01:55:50,000
in relation to i've never come to the

3211
01:55:54,870 --> 01:55:52,080
conclusion that oh my god

3212
01:55:55,990 --> 01:55:54,880
there's just no answer this is something

3213
01:55:57,109 --> 01:55:56,000
not of this world this is something

3214
01:55:59,589 --> 01:55:57,119
paranormal

3215
01:56:01,350 --> 01:55:59,599
uh you know i don't think that my

3216
01:56:03,270 --> 01:56:01,360
and i hope that this doesn't appoint any

3217
01:56:05,109 --> 01:56:03,280
uh disappoint anybody but i don't think

3218
01:56:06,390 --> 01:56:05,119
that you know my mind gravitates toward

3219
01:56:09,830 --> 01:56:06,400
you know trying to say that there's an

3220
01:56:10,950 --> 01:56:09,840
unsolvable element to any of this uh

3221
01:56:12,790 --> 01:56:10,960
that doesn't mean that there are not

3222
01:56:15,270 --> 01:56:12,800
phenomena which

3223
01:56:17,589 --> 01:56:15,280
currently uh our our understanding of or

3224
01:56:20,310 --> 01:56:17,599
a level of sophistication in relation to

3225
01:56:21,430 --> 01:56:20,320
science and technology uh uh it doesn't

3226
01:56:23,270 --> 01:56:21,440
mean that there aren't certain phenomena

3227
01:56:24,550 --> 01:56:23,280
that extend beyond that

3228
01:56:26,390 --> 01:56:24,560
but uh you know with the acquisition of

3229
01:56:27,830 --> 01:56:26,400
new information

3230
01:56:28,709 --> 01:56:27,840
presumably we will understand these

3231
01:56:30,629 --> 01:56:28,719
things

3232
01:56:32,149 --> 01:56:30,639
in one case i looked into uh some time

3233
01:56:33,669 --> 01:56:32,159
ago and i and i'll mention this one

3234
01:56:35,430 --> 01:56:33,679
because it is discussed in my book the

3235
01:56:37,589 --> 01:56:35,440
ufo singularity and so that can be

3236
01:56:38,709 --> 01:56:37,599
referenced by people which you know

3237
01:56:40,149 --> 01:56:38,719
makes me so

3238
01:56:41,589 --> 01:56:40,159
sick that you know there have been

3239
01:56:43,350 --> 01:56:41,599
people who really don't understand what

3240
01:56:46,390 --> 01:56:43,360
that book i think was about again i was

3241
01:56:48,950 --> 01:56:46,400
trying to examine ufo literature

3242
01:56:50,470 --> 01:56:48,960
and kind of compare that with the idea

3243
01:56:52,149 --> 01:56:50,480
of artificial intelligence which is the

3244
01:56:54,390 --> 01:56:52,159
theme throughout that book

3245
01:56:55,910 --> 01:56:54,400
that is addressed and one skeptical

3246
01:56:57,510 --> 01:56:55,920
blogger had referred to that book as uh

3247
01:56:59,109 --> 01:56:57,520
being about aliens who time travel from

3248
01:57:00,149 --> 01:56:59,119
the future and other made up ideas and

3249
01:57:02,070 --> 01:57:00,159
i'm just thinking that he hadn't read

3250
01:57:03,350 --> 01:57:02,080
the book and i know that for a fact

3251
01:57:04,629 --> 01:57:03,360
it just goes to show the dismissive

3252
01:57:06,310 --> 01:57:04,639
attitude that people have again i think

3253
01:57:07,430 --> 01:57:06,320
that culturally and also through much

3254
01:57:08,629 --> 01:57:07,440
through the lens of science fiction

3255
01:57:10,470 --> 01:57:08,639
there was a lot of reference to science

3256
01:57:13,350 --> 01:57:10,480
fiction in that book it was a thought

3257
01:57:14,870 --> 01:57:13,360
experiment and now analyzing you know

3258
01:57:17,830 --> 01:57:14,880
motifs that are present and have

3259
01:57:20,310 --> 01:57:17,840
remained present in ufo literature

3260
01:57:22,070 --> 01:57:20,320
let's do a little bit more

3261
01:57:24,470 --> 01:57:22,080
thought experimenting and then we'll get

3262
01:57:27,109 --> 01:57:24,480
back with micah hanks of the ghrelian

3263
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report with gene and chris

3264
01:57:36,790 --> 01:57:30,100
you're in the paracast

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if you're fascinated by ufos ancient

3266
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paranormal topic as we are be sure to

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3292
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3293
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3294
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3295
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3299
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3300
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3368
02:01:51,750 --> 02:01:48,480
send it to news at the paracast.com

3369
02:01:53,589 --> 02:01:51,760
that's news at the paracast.com

3370
02:01:56,070 --> 02:01:53,599
and don't forget to visit our famous

3371
02:02:00,390 --> 02:01:56,080
paracast community forums at

3372
02:02:04,629 --> 02:02:02,229
looks like he's got the filter

3373
02:02:07,990 --> 02:02:04,639
microphone working there chris o'brien

3374
02:02:12,390 --> 02:02:10,070
micah hanks is with us

3375
02:02:14,629 --> 02:02:12,400
thought experiments indeed like crypto

3376
02:02:16,149 --> 02:02:14,639
terrestrials from mac tony's

3377
02:02:17,589 --> 02:02:16,159
of course that's a way to get away with

3378
02:02:18,950 --> 02:02:17,599
something too you say well i didn't

3379
02:02:21,109 --> 02:02:18,960
really mean this

3380
02:02:22,950 --> 02:02:21,119
it's just a thought experiment

3381
02:02:24,229 --> 02:02:22,960
right i'm going to put a bunch of ideas

3382
02:02:25,270 --> 02:02:24,239
out there and i don't mean any of this

3383
02:02:26,870 --> 02:02:25,280
but i just you know i'm just going to

3384
02:02:29,030 --> 02:02:26,880
put it out there anyway i like to think

3385
02:02:30,149 --> 02:02:29,040
that uh you know i can i can own my

3386
02:02:31,350 --> 02:02:30,159
theories and i want to come back around

3387
02:02:33,830 --> 02:02:31,360
to the question about you know have i

3388
02:02:35,589 --> 02:02:33,840
come to that determination and if so you

3389
02:02:37,910 --> 02:02:35,599
know what what cases have i studied that

3390
02:02:39,430 --> 02:02:37,920
might indicate this or that

3391
02:02:40,550 --> 02:02:39,440
in regard to the idea of a thought

3392
02:02:41,910 --> 02:02:40,560
experiment i think it's fine to have a

3393
02:02:44,390 --> 02:02:41,920
thought experiment but i do think it has

3394
02:02:46,149 --> 02:02:44,400
to have some sort of relation to

3395
02:02:48,470 --> 02:02:46,159
what your actual beliefs or your

3396
02:02:50,790 --> 02:02:48,480
theories uh you know may may be in a

3397
02:02:52,070 --> 02:02:50,800
more in a more hard-line way and i will

3398
02:02:53,910 --> 02:02:52,080
say that there are a lot of things i've

3399
02:02:55,669 --> 02:02:53,920
written over the years that um frankly

3400
02:02:57,750 --> 02:02:55,679
as my skepticism toward the subject has

3401
02:02:59,350 --> 02:02:57,760
increased over time i

3402
02:03:01,030 --> 02:02:59,360
i would endorse certain things that i've

3403
02:03:02,950 --> 02:03:01,040
written in the past far less than i

3404
02:03:04,709 --> 02:03:02,960
would today but that's a good thing i

3405
02:03:06,790 --> 02:03:04,719
think i think it's important that as we

3406
02:03:08,550 --> 02:03:06,800
move along our ideas and attitudes

3407
02:03:10,310 --> 02:03:08,560
change a big problem i see in ufo

3408
02:03:12,229 --> 02:03:10,320
circles especially these days is that

3409
02:03:14,870 --> 02:03:12,239
people have been citing the same

3410
02:03:16,310 --> 02:03:14,880
speculative quote-unquote theories for

3411
02:03:17,750 --> 02:03:16,320
years and they have no better evidence

3412
02:03:20,149 --> 02:03:17,760
to support those things than they did

3413
02:03:21,990 --> 02:03:20,159
years ago they maintain this

3414
02:03:23,589 --> 02:03:22,000
quote-unquote perspective which really

3415
02:03:25,189 --> 02:03:23,599
has just become a belief it's like a

3416
02:03:25,910 --> 02:03:25,199
spirituality it's like a religion for

3417
02:03:27,350 --> 02:03:25,920
them

3418
02:03:28,709 --> 02:03:27,360
and the fact that i disagree so much

3419
02:03:29,990 --> 02:03:28,719
with maybe certain things that i've

3420
02:03:31,669 --> 02:03:30,000
written over the years for instance i'll

3421
02:03:34,470 --> 02:03:31,679
give you an example i have speculated at

3422
02:03:36,310 --> 02:03:34,480
times that maybe a more likely reality i

3423
02:03:37,990 --> 02:03:36,320
guess we might call it underlying ufos

3424
02:03:40,470 --> 02:03:38,000
could be in some instances some sort of

3425
02:03:41,830 --> 02:03:40,480
time travel in fairness carl sagan on

3426
02:03:43,030 --> 02:03:41,840
the other hand has said that he had

3427
02:03:44,790 --> 02:03:43,040
found and there's an interview where you

3428
02:03:46,950 --> 02:03:44,800
can see this on online

3429
02:03:48,149 --> 02:03:46,960
where sagan had found the idea that

3430
02:03:49,990 --> 02:03:48,159
there's no evidence of time travel

3431
02:03:52,149 --> 02:03:50,000
dubious he said it may be that time

3432
02:03:54,470 --> 02:03:52,159
travel is possible but that we have

3433
02:03:57,189 --> 02:03:54,480
mistaken another phenomena for it

3434
02:03:59,350 --> 02:03:57,199
perhaps ghosts or even ufos but we

3435
02:04:00,870 --> 02:03:59,360
couldn't necessarily say that there's no

3436
02:04:02,709 --> 02:04:00,880
proof of time travel because we've seen

3437
02:04:04,470 --> 02:04:02,719
no evidence of it now again i don't

3438
02:04:06,149 --> 02:04:04,480
think that sagan was trying to make a

3439
02:04:07,430 --> 02:04:06,159
good case for the existence of ufos and

3440
02:04:08,790 --> 02:04:07,440
saying that they were time travelers

3441
02:04:10,070 --> 02:04:08,800
that was him i think engaging in

3442
02:04:11,990 --> 02:04:10,080
something of a thought experiment he was

3443
02:04:13,669 --> 02:04:12,000
merely saying it could be that time

3444
02:04:16,310 --> 02:04:13,679
travel if there's evidence that we would

3445
02:04:18,870 --> 02:04:16,320
see of it today we have not recognized

3446
02:04:20,390 --> 02:04:18,880
it as being that evidence nonetheless

3447
02:04:22,310 --> 02:04:20,400
taking on a general understanding of

3448
02:04:24,629 --> 02:04:22,320
general relativity i also recognize that

3449
02:04:27,030 --> 02:04:24,639
while it is apparently a generic time

3450
02:04:29,189 --> 02:04:27,040
travel a generic element that that is

3451
02:04:31,910 --> 02:04:29,199
consistent with a lot of different areas

3452
02:04:34,629 --> 02:04:31,920
of of relativity and is something uh

3453
02:04:36,390 --> 02:04:34,639
written about by j richard gott and by

3454
02:04:37,750 --> 02:04:36,400
paul davies and a number of others you

3455
02:04:39,510 --> 02:04:37,760
know time travel is something that

3456
02:04:41,030 --> 02:04:39,520
theoretically could work in terms of

3457
02:04:43,030 --> 02:04:41,040
general relativity it's extremely

3458
02:04:44,550 --> 02:04:43,040
difficult to achieve maybe one day it

3459
02:04:47,270 --> 02:04:44,560
will be achieved but it seems less

3460
02:04:48,470 --> 02:04:47,280
likely to me that ufos are perhaps that

3461
02:04:49,750 --> 02:04:48,480
so coming back to that book the ufo

3462
02:04:51,669 --> 02:04:49,760
singularity that was something that i

3463
02:04:53,270 --> 02:04:51,679
did talk about loosely and i was trying

3464
02:04:54,709 --> 02:04:53,280
to interpret it not as literal time and

3465
02:04:56,870 --> 02:04:54,719
travel but i've come even further away

3466
02:04:58,790 --> 02:04:56,880
from that than i might have you know

3467
02:05:00,229 --> 02:04:58,800
held myself to uh at the time that the

3468
02:05:01,830 --> 02:05:00,239
book was written but the case that i

3469
02:05:03,510 --> 02:05:01,840
looked at in the book that was a little

3470
02:05:05,350 --> 02:05:03,520
more on the real world side of things

3471
02:05:07,270 --> 02:05:05,360
rather than the speculative science

3472
02:05:09,270 --> 02:05:07,280
fiction side was mike reese encounter

3473
02:05:11,830 --> 02:05:09,280
which involved him seeing a disc shaped

3474
02:05:14,070 --> 02:05:11,840
ufo hovering over a power substation

3475
02:05:15,270 --> 02:05:14,080
back in 1973 and actually i've

3476
02:05:16,709 --> 02:05:15,280
interviewed him but he wasn't the only

3477
02:05:18,310 --> 02:05:16,719
witness his sister and his wife at the

3478
02:05:20,470 --> 02:05:18,320
time and their children were there they

3479
02:05:22,229 --> 02:05:20,480
all saw this thing and it was remarkably

3480
02:05:24,229 --> 02:05:22,239
similar to an incident that occurred

3481
02:05:26,229 --> 02:05:24,239
just a couple of years ago where a bbc

3482
02:05:28,390 --> 02:05:26,239
news uh sports affiliate was driving

3483
02:05:30,070 --> 02:05:28,400
along to catch a red-eye flight early in

3484
02:05:31,990 --> 02:05:30,080
the morning he was traveling down a

3485
02:05:34,229 --> 02:05:32,000
country road and driving behind a

3486
02:05:35,830 --> 02:05:34,239
volkswagen van and he said as he called

3487
02:05:37,510 --> 02:05:35,840
into the radio program to talk about it

3488
02:05:39,750 --> 02:05:37,520
and it's still online you can hear it he

3489
02:05:41,910 --> 02:05:39,760
said i loathe to say it but it was disc

3490
02:05:43,910 --> 02:05:41,920
shaped and he described a saucer shape

3491
02:05:46,070 --> 02:05:43,920
with lights around the perimeter of the

3492
02:05:48,470 --> 02:05:46,080
of the disc and it drifted rather slowly

3493
02:05:50,470 --> 02:05:48,480
over the highway he said i'm begging

3494
02:05:51,910 --> 02:05:50,480
whoever was in that van in front of me

3495
02:05:53,270 --> 02:05:51,920
to call in and to please identify

3496
02:05:55,830 --> 02:05:53,280
themselves because i know they had seen

3497
02:05:57,270 --> 02:05:55,840
this thing as well and so these craft

3498
02:05:58,709 --> 02:05:57,280
appear to still be seen today and it's

3499
02:06:00,390 --> 02:05:58,719
interesting because we do have the idea

3500
02:06:02,470 --> 02:06:00,400
of a flying saucer that during the blue

3501
02:06:03,430 --> 02:06:02,480
book years edward ripolt had said you

3502
02:06:05,750 --> 02:06:03,440
know we really should start calling

3503
02:06:07,030 --> 02:06:05,760
these things ufos unidentified flying

3504
02:06:09,510 --> 02:06:07,040
object is a better catch-all because

3505
02:06:11,750 --> 02:06:09,520
they aren't all disk shaped but some ufo

3506
02:06:14,229 --> 02:06:11,760
reports and rather credible observations

3507
02:06:15,910 --> 02:06:14,239
do involve disc shaped or roughly disc

3508
02:06:18,390 --> 02:06:15,920
shaped craft that's what was seen in

3509
02:06:20,070 --> 02:06:18,400
1973 by mike reese but after we we

3510
02:06:21,990 --> 02:06:20,080
traveled to the location and we took

3511
02:06:23,750 --> 02:06:22,000
photographs and people said micah that

3512
02:06:25,669 --> 02:06:23,760
was 1973 why would you study something

3513
02:06:27,510 --> 02:06:25,679
that happened back then well i felt i

3514
02:06:28,790 --> 02:06:27,520
had a credible multiple witness

3515
02:06:30,470 --> 02:06:28,800
encounter and i was interested in

3516
02:06:32,390 --> 02:06:30,480
getting as much information about what

3517
02:06:33,830 --> 02:06:32,400
they said that they saw one thing they

3518
02:06:35,350 --> 02:06:33,840
described that was interesting to me was

3519
02:06:36,629 --> 02:06:35,360
they said that it looked like a white

3520
02:06:38,709 --> 02:06:36,639
light when they saw it off in the

3521
02:06:41,030 --> 02:06:38,719
distance but as it was hovering over the

3522
02:06:43,189 --> 02:06:41,040
road mike distinctly remembered he said

3523
02:06:44,709 --> 02:06:43,199
that the lights were blue green and red

3524
02:06:46,709 --> 02:06:44,719
and of course you know we know that the

3525
02:06:48,310 --> 02:06:46,719
additive color theory of light is that

3526
02:06:49,830 --> 02:06:48,320
you know when you combine those three

3527
02:06:51,910 --> 02:06:49,840
primary colors of light you get white

3528
02:06:53,990 --> 02:06:51,920
light and it seemed to indicate to me

3529
02:06:55,510 --> 02:06:54,000
that from a distance it may have been

3530
02:06:57,750 --> 02:06:55,520
the case that perhaps this object was

3531
02:06:59,669 --> 02:06:57,760
spinning or some other kind of mechanism

3532
02:07:01,669 --> 02:06:59,679
was causing the blending of light

3533
02:07:03,109 --> 02:07:01,679
coloration to appear white from a

3534
02:07:05,270 --> 02:07:03,119
distance and so that told us something

3535
02:07:07,189 --> 02:07:05,280
about the possible mode in which the

3536
02:07:08,390 --> 02:07:07,199
craft moved but he had already said that

3537
02:07:09,910 --> 02:07:08,400
the light seemed to be moving in

3538
02:07:10,950 --> 02:07:09,920
sequence around which gave the

3539
02:07:12,870 --> 02:07:10,960
impression that there was like a

3540
02:07:15,109 --> 02:07:12,880
centrifuge or that the craft itself was

3541
02:07:16,470 --> 02:07:15,119
actually rotating or turning and i said

3542
02:07:17,750 --> 02:07:16,480
you know this is interesting but having

3543
02:07:19,270 --> 02:07:17,760
actually observed this thing i mean did

3544
02:07:20,950 --> 02:07:19,280
you get the impression that this thing

3545
02:07:22,629 --> 02:07:20,960
was something so far out that it

3546
02:07:24,390 --> 02:07:22,639
couldn't have been human he said my gut

3547
02:07:26,069 --> 02:07:24,400
tells me that there were people on board

3548
02:07:27,510 --> 02:07:26,079
that craft this didn't look like

3549
02:07:29,750 --> 02:07:27,520
something that couldn't have been built

3550
02:07:31,510 --> 02:07:29,760
on earth it's just not a technology that

3551
02:07:33,430 --> 02:07:31,520
is known to exist on earth and that's

3552
02:07:35,189 --> 02:07:33,440
again where i have to stand when when

3553
02:07:37,109 --> 02:07:35,199
you dig into these kind of cases i

3554
02:07:38,229 --> 02:07:37,119
haven't found compelling evidence that

3555
02:07:40,310 --> 02:07:38,239
what we're dealing with is something

3556
02:07:41,750 --> 02:07:40,320
that could not be from earth but if it

3557
02:07:43,350 --> 02:07:41,760
is from earth the important point we

3558
02:07:45,910 --> 02:07:43,360
have to make is that it is not any kind

3559
02:07:47,669 --> 02:07:45,920
of known technology whereas modern

3560
02:07:49,910 --> 02:07:47,679
scientists many physicists would say

3561
02:07:51,669 --> 02:07:49,920
that what is described in ufo reports

3562
02:07:53,189 --> 02:07:51,679
really is something that could not exist

3563
02:07:55,350 --> 02:07:53,199
in accordance with the laws of physics

3564
02:07:56,950 --> 02:07:55,360
now that may be a bit more of a stretch

3565
02:07:58,550 --> 02:07:56,960
than to say that these things

3566
02:08:00,069 --> 02:07:58,560
could be here from earth you know rather

3567
02:08:01,990 --> 02:08:00,079
than being alien to me which is kind of

3568
02:08:03,510 --> 02:08:02,000
funny because as you see the different

3569
02:08:05,350 --> 02:08:03,520
warring factions you can get to a point

3570
02:08:07,109 --> 02:08:05,360
of skepticism to where you rule out any

3571
02:08:08,470 --> 02:08:07,119
possibility whatsoever because it just

3572
02:08:10,470 --> 02:08:08,480
doesn't seem to conform to your

3573
02:08:11,990 --> 02:08:10,480
worldview and your knowledge of science

3574
02:08:14,069 --> 02:08:12,000
and mechanics you know whereas on the

3575
02:08:15,830 --> 02:08:14,079
opposite extreme we we see people saying

3576
02:08:17,589 --> 02:08:15,840
the exact same thing and therefore it

3577
02:08:19,589 --> 02:08:17,599
must be alien somewhere in the middle

3578
02:08:21,270 --> 02:08:19,599
maybe the possibility does exist that

3579
02:08:23,030 --> 02:08:21,280
there is technology and that there are

3580
02:08:24,550 --> 02:08:23,040
phenomena that people do see from time

3581
02:08:26,550 --> 02:08:24,560
to time but that they are perhaps more

3582
02:08:28,870 --> 02:08:26,560
real and tangible to this world than

3583
02:08:30,550 --> 02:08:28,880
people are willing to consider yeah yeah

3584
02:08:33,510 --> 02:08:30,560
good point and and some of the older

3585
02:08:35,990 --> 02:08:33,520
cases uh that haven't been thoroughly

3586
02:08:38,550 --> 02:08:36,000
investigated and and researched i i

3587
02:08:41,270 --> 02:08:38,560
think are worthy of the especially uh

3588
02:08:43,430 --> 02:08:41,280
cases from that seminal year of 73 when

3589
02:08:45,750 --> 02:08:43,440
one of the most extensive ufo waves on

3590
02:08:47,589 --> 02:08:45,760
record occurred worldwide not only in

3591
02:08:49,669 --> 02:08:47,599
the united states in the midwest and on

3592
02:08:52,790 --> 02:08:49,679
the the river valleys of the midwest and

3593
02:08:54,310 --> 02:08:52,800
southeast but it was a global event and

3594
02:08:56,229 --> 02:08:54,320
that's right when the vietnam war was

3595
02:08:57,669 --> 02:08:56,239
winding up and you know of course

3596
02:08:59,350 --> 02:08:57,679
watergate was happening there was a lot

3597
02:09:02,629 --> 02:08:59,360
of interesting cultural things that were

3598
02:09:04,229 --> 02:09:02,639
going on uh subsequently to that so

3599
02:09:06,390 --> 02:09:04,239
you know i agree that that some of these

3600
02:09:08,149 --> 02:09:06,400
older cases for some of you new aspiring

3601
02:09:10,149 --> 02:09:08,159
investigators out there if you if you

3602
02:09:12,390 --> 02:09:10,159
stumble on a what appears to be a good

3603
02:09:13,990 --> 02:09:12,400
case just because it's from

3604
02:09:16,069 --> 02:09:14,000
the past doesn't mean that it's not as

3605
02:09:17,830 --> 02:09:16,079
relevant as a case that happened last

3606
02:09:19,270 --> 02:09:17,840
week i think a lot of very good

3607
02:09:20,870 --> 02:09:19,280
information could be obtained from some

3608
02:09:23,270 --> 02:09:20,880
of these older cases and micah you just

3609
02:09:25,270 --> 02:09:23,280
gave a classic example of of how to go

3610
02:09:27,430 --> 02:09:25,280
about doing that and uh does take some

3611
02:09:28,470 --> 02:09:27,440
work you know if it goes back too far

3612
02:09:30,229 --> 02:09:28,480
obviously people aren't going to be

3613
02:09:32,709 --> 02:09:30,239
around to talk to you so

3614
02:09:34,149 --> 02:09:32,719
get on your on your hobby horses well to

3615
02:09:36,069 --> 02:09:34,159
be fair there would be people who would

3616
02:09:38,069 --> 02:09:36,079
say no no no no no seriously you're not

3617
02:09:39,350 --> 02:09:38,079
going to find any evidence of radiation

3618
02:09:41,430 --> 02:09:39,360
you're not going to find any kind of

3619
02:09:43,510 --> 02:09:41,440
marks you know any kind of satellite

3620
02:09:45,589 --> 02:09:43,520
imagery or any kind of you know thermal

3621
02:09:47,830 --> 02:09:45,599
any anything that's going to be this is

3622
02:09:49,109 --> 02:09:47,840
physical yeah physical evidence yeah but

3623
02:09:50,069 --> 02:09:49,119
and that's what many would say is that

3624
02:09:51,669 --> 02:09:50,079
you know if you're looking at something

3625
02:09:53,189 --> 02:09:51,679
that's decades old you're not going to

3626
02:09:54,709 --> 02:09:53,199
learn anything now what i felt was

3627
02:09:57,189 --> 02:09:54,719
different about for instance the story

3628
02:09:59,669 --> 02:09:57,199
that mike told me uh in my greece's

3629
02:10:01,830 --> 02:09:59,679
encounter he describes again

3630
02:10:03,270 --> 02:10:01,840
characteristics that involve the light

3631
02:10:04,470 --> 02:10:03,280
the apparent rotation of the craft the

3632
02:10:06,470 --> 02:10:04,480
fact that it was hovering over a power

3633
02:10:08,709 --> 02:10:06,480
substation which is a recurring motif in

3634
02:10:10,870 --> 02:10:08,719
a lot of different ufo observations over

3635
02:10:12,709 --> 02:10:10,880
the years the fact that there had been

3636
02:10:14,790 --> 02:10:12,719
other reports of an object seen because

3637
02:10:16,310 --> 02:10:14,800
it passed over the uh what would the

3638
02:10:17,669 --> 02:10:16,320
interstate be there i don't i don't call

3639
02:10:19,109 --> 02:10:17,679
it this was just south of atlanta

3640
02:10:20,790 --> 02:10:19,119
georgia

3641
02:10:28,310 --> 02:10:20,800
more to come with micah hanks and gene

3642
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you are listening to gcn

3643
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3646
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3648
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3649
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3650
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3651
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3652
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3653
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3654
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3655
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3657
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[Music]

3749
02:14:47,189 --> 02:14:45,119
this is jerome clark author of the ufo

3750
02:14:49,160 --> 02:14:47,199
encyclopedia in other books you're

3751
02:14:59,350 --> 02:14:49,170
listening to the peercast

3752
02:15:01,109 --> 02:14:59,360
[Music]

3753
02:15:03,669 --> 02:15:01,119
okay micah hanks you were saying about

3754
02:15:04,709 --> 02:15:03,679
this case it happened near atlanta

3755
02:15:06,149 --> 02:15:04,719
georgia

3756
02:15:07,750 --> 02:15:06,159
yes and again the only point i was

3757
02:15:10,069 --> 02:15:07,760
trying to make about this case is that

3758
02:15:11,990 --> 02:15:10,079
again there were enough aspects about

3759
02:15:13,589 --> 02:15:12,000
the behavior of the object that was

3760
02:15:15,270 --> 02:15:13,599
observed that to me

3761
02:15:16,790 --> 02:15:15,280
helped i wouldn't even really call it

3762
02:15:18,149 --> 02:15:16,800
detective work i would just say thinking

3763
02:15:20,550 --> 02:15:18,159
carefully enough about what was

3764
02:15:21,830 --> 02:15:20,560
described led me to some observations

3765
02:15:23,270 --> 02:15:21,840
about this craft mainly that there

3766
02:15:25,189 --> 02:15:23,280
seemed to be again a rotational

3767
02:15:26,950 --> 02:15:25,199
component to the way that it moved

3768
02:15:28,950 --> 02:15:26,960
presumably that the the faster the

3769
02:15:30,310 --> 02:15:28,960
rotation or rather that the object

3770
02:15:32,310 --> 02:15:30,320
rotated more quickly when it was

3771
02:15:33,910 --> 02:15:32,320
actually moving rather than when it was

3772
02:15:36,069 --> 02:15:33,920
apparently hovering as it had appeared

3773
02:15:37,189 --> 02:15:36,079
to be doing over this power substation

3774
02:15:38,629 --> 02:15:37,199
it is interesting that people have

3775
02:15:40,709 --> 02:15:38,639
reported over the years the number of

3776
02:15:43,750 --> 02:15:40,719
ufos that are seen hovering over power

3777
02:15:45,350 --> 02:15:43,760
lines uh hovering over power substations

3778
02:15:47,109 --> 02:15:45,360
uh you know the aldi of all different

3779
02:15:48,629 --> 02:15:47,119
kinds of things like this and i do

3780
02:15:51,109 --> 02:15:48,639
recall reading

3781
02:15:53,669 --> 02:15:51,119
i don't remember if this was i know it

3782
02:15:55,350 --> 02:15:53,679
had cited nikola tesla in an interview

3783
02:15:57,270 --> 02:15:55,360
that i believe it appeared uh electrical

3784
02:15:58,310 --> 02:15:57,280
experimenter magazine i'm trying to

3785
02:16:00,149 --> 02:15:58,320
remember the source of the actual

3786
02:16:02,470 --> 02:16:00,159
article but it had been speculating

3787
02:16:04,470 --> 02:16:02,480
about an aircraft that tesla had made

3788
02:16:06,069 --> 02:16:04,480
noises about wanting to build throughout

3789
02:16:07,830 --> 02:16:06,079
his life which essentially would have

3790
02:16:09,109 --> 02:16:07,840
been something along the lines of a long

3791
02:16:14,069 --> 02:16:09,119
kind of a

3792
02:16:17,430 --> 02:16:14,079
aircraft he believed that he could

3793
02:16:20,149 --> 02:16:17,440
utilize electrical forces alone to lift

3794
02:16:21,910 --> 02:16:20,159
and to move an aircraft through the air

3795
02:16:23,189 --> 02:16:21,920
uh that he felt would be far more

3796
02:16:24,709 --> 02:16:23,199
efficient in its you know

3797
02:16:27,189 --> 02:16:24,719
maneuverability

3798
02:16:28,870 --> 02:16:27,199
even actually the the the power uh you

3799
02:16:30,629 --> 02:16:28,880
know input needed in order to power this

3800
02:16:32,549 --> 02:16:30,639
thing tesla was convinced that something

3801
02:16:33,910 --> 02:16:32,559
like this could be built and when

3802
02:16:35,669 --> 02:16:33,920
you know airplanes were coming to

3803
02:16:37,990 --> 02:16:35,679
prominence and were becoming you know

3804
02:16:39,830 --> 02:16:38,000
the way of the future tesla was laughing

3805
02:16:42,150 --> 02:16:39,840
and he he never said much about this

3806
02:16:44,389 --> 02:16:42,160
craft but there certainly are references

3807
02:16:46,389 --> 02:16:44,399
to it in interviews little though they

3808
02:16:47,669 --> 02:16:46,399
were and he had maintained that over the

3809
02:16:49,589 --> 02:16:47,679
years he would be able to build an

3810
02:16:51,509 --> 02:16:49,599
aircraft an electric spacecraft

3811
02:16:53,509 --> 02:16:51,519
essentially that would outdo anything

3812
02:16:54,790 --> 02:16:53,519
that we knew and what he described what

3813
02:16:56,309 --> 02:16:54,800
was envisioned and there were you know

3814
02:16:57,270 --> 02:16:56,319
rough images and things like that

3815
02:16:58,709 --> 02:16:57,280
actually some of them were quite

3816
02:17:00,309 --> 02:16:58,719
artistic but nonetheless they were rough

3817
02:17:01,830 --> 02:17:00,319
because they weren't really intelligent

3818
02:17:03,830 --> 02:17:01,840
schematics or anything along those lines

3819
02:17:05,509 --> 02:17:03,840
if the if any existed

3820
02:17:07,429 --> 02:17:05,519
many have proposed that perhaps these

3821
02:17:09,270 --> 02:17:07,439
would have been captured along with the

3822
02:17:10,870 --> 02:17:09,280
uh documents and the other possessions

3823
02:17:12,629 --> 02:17:10,880
that were kept by tesla at the time of

3824
02:17:14,709 --> 02:17:12,639
his death in which the united states

3825
02:17:16,709 --> 02:17:14,719
military acquired which interestingly i

3826
02:17:18,709 --> 02:17:16,719
think that they were acquired under the

3827
02:17:19,589 --> 02:17:18,719
it was the alien um i can't remember but

3828
02:17:21,349 --> 02:17:19,599
it's interesting because he was an

3829
02:17:22,950 --> 02:17:21,359
american citizen and nonetheless

3830
02:17:24,549 --> 02:17:22,960
the circumstances under which those

3831
02:17:26,309 --> 02:17:24,559
files i have to get this information i

3832
02:17:27,589 --> 02:17:26,319
don't want to misspeak here but the

3833
02:17:29,990 --> 02:17:27,599
acquisition by the military of the

3834
02:17:31,910 --> 02:17:30,000
vowels had been under the auspices of

3835
02:17:34,070 --> 02:17:31,920
how they would have been treated had he

3836
02:17:35,990 --> 02:17:34,080
not been a u.s citizen which is rather

3837
02:17:37,509 --> 02:17:36,000
strange he was from serbia but of course

3838
02:17:39,589 --> 02:17:37,519
he didn't you know immigrated and was a

3839
02:17:41,429 --> 02:17:39,599
u.s citizen at the time that he died so

3840
02:17:42,790 --> 02:17:41,439
if there was any actual schematic if

3841
02:17:44,309 --> 02:17:42,800
there was anything more than just you

3842
02:17:45,589 --> 02:17:44,319
know the meanderings of his mind that he

3843
02:17:47,509 --> 02:17:45,599
would bring forth during interviews at

3844
02:17:49,270 --> 02:17:47,519
times we will maybe never know but it

3845
02:17:50,870 --> 02:17:49,280
seemed that tesla certainly believed

3846
02:17:52,709 --> 02:17:50,880
that an electric spacecraft along those

3847
02:17:53,990 --> 02:17:52,719
lines could be built you know again

3848
02:17:55,990 --> 02:17:54,000
something that would have exceeded the

3849
02:17:57,589 --> 02:17:56,000
kind of technology that we knew of that

3850
02:17:58,629 --> 02:17:57,599
day and perhaps even of

3851
02:18:00,070 --> 02:17:58,639
the modern era it would have been

3852
02:18:02,230 --> 02:18:00,080
fascinating had he ever actually built

3853
02:18:04,950 --> 02:18:02,240
that isn't it interesting that the

3854
02:18:06,870 --> 02:18:04,960
technology we use today for spacecraft

3855
02:18:09,349 --> 02:18:06,880
it's based on the same technology we

3856
02:18:11,110 --> 02:18:09,359
were working with back in the 40s well

3857
02:18:12,309 --> 02:18:11,120
yeah the see that's what's weird is that

3858
02:18:13,990 --> 02:18:12,319
tesla

3859
02:18:15,750 --> 02:18:14,000
many said had a different way of

3860
02:18:17,830 --> 02:18:15,760
conceiving of things mechanically and

3861
02:18:19,030 --> 02:18:17,840
envisioning in his mind and speculation

3862
02:18:20,790 --> 02:18:19,040
about his craft by the way i should

3863
02:18:22,389 --> 02:18:20,800
point out tying it back to the mike

3864
02:18:23,910 --> 02:18:22,399
reese encounter

3865
02:18:25,030 --> 02:18:23,920
in in the article i'll have to find this

3866
02:18:26,469 --> 02:18:25,040
i'm going to have to find it and post it

3867
02:18:28,150 --> 02:18:26,479
in the paracast form so that people can

3868
02:18:30,150 --> 02:18:28,160
read this but it was speculated that

3869
02:18:32,389 --> 02:18:30,160
such a craft could possibly recharge its

3870
02:18:34,790 --> 02:18:32,399
electrical potential by hovering near a

3871
02:18:36,230 --> 02:18:34,800
high-yield electromagnetic field which

3872
02:18:38,309 --> 02:18:36,240
seemed very interesting to me because it

3873
02:18:39,669 --> 02:18:38,319
sounded very similar to the behavior in

3874
02:18:42,150 --> 02:18:39,679
the mike reese encounter the thing

3875
02:18:44,230 --> 02:18:42,160
hovering over a power substation if and

3876
02:18:46,870 --> 02:18:44,240
one would ask if you know if there's

3877
02:18:49,270 --> 02:18:46,880
some sort of a practical uh need for an

3878
02:18:51,190 --> 02:18:49,280
aircraft like this to hover over a power

3879
02:18:53,509 --> 02:18:51,200
source would that explain why ufos are

3880
02:18:55,589 --> 02:18:53,519
often seen doing just that in some

3881
02:18:57,190 --> 02:18:55,599
instances especially you know the advent

3882
02:19:00,549 --> 02:18:57,200
of the nuclear era there were a lot of

3883
02:19:02,549 --> 02:19:00,559
reports of ufo type craft hovering over

3884
02:19:04,230 --> 02:19:02,559
nuclear power sources and the like but

3885
02:19:06,230 --> 02:19:04,240
if we're talking about electromagnetic

3886
02:19:07,990 --> 02:19:06,240
aircraft of any kind you know something

3887
02:19:09,270 --> 02:19:08,000
similar to what tesla had envisioned it

3888
02:19:10,709 --> 02:19:09,280
seems unlikely to me that they would

3889
02:19:11,830 --> 02:19:10,719
hover over a nuclear power source but

3890
02:19:13,589 --> 02:19:11,840
nonetheless

3891
02:19:15,190 --> 02:19:13,599
as you point out jean yeah what we're

3892
02:19:17,429 --> 02:19:15,200
dealing with today still really kind of

3893
02:19:19,349 --> 02:19:17,439
hails back to the rocket technology and

3894
02:19:21,030 --> 02:19:19,359
and technology is capable of you know

3895
02:19:23,190 --> 02:19:21,040
reaching an escape velocity that can

3896
02:19:24,549 --> 02:19:23,200
actually get us further you know far

3897
02:19:25,830 --> 02:19:24,559
enough up into the atmosphere that we

3898
02:19:28,070 --> 02:19:25,840
can actually escape the gravitational

3899
02:19:29,750 --> 02:19:28,080
pull of the earth rocket thrust being

3900
02:19:31,669 --> 02:19:29,760
really the only way that we do that

3901
02:19:34,309 --> 02:19:31,679
tesla of course had envisioned other

3902
02:19:35,669 --> 02:19:34,319
things uh whether anyone anywhere at any

3903
02:19:37,429 --> 02:19:35,679
time has ever seen any of those things

3904
02:19:38,790 --> 02:19:37,439
to fruition really is a mystery many say

3905
02:19:40,549 --> 02:19:38,800
it's unlikely but when you think about

3906
02:19:42,950 --> 02:19:40,559
these ufo reports sometimes it seems

3907
02:19:45,990 --> 02:19:42,960
less likely uh and maybe at least a

3908
02:19:48,469 --> 02:19:46,000
possibility yeah you know very much so

3909
02:19:50,469 --> 02:19:48,479
when you go on a rocket today it's like

3910
02:19:52,950 --> 02:19:50,479
sitting atop a bomb

3911
02:19:54,550 --> 02:19:52,960
well he goes back to medieval china i

3912
02:19:56,790 --> 02:19:54,560
mean hello you know the invention of

3913
02:19:59,190 --> 02:19:56,800
gunpowder and in rockets goes all the

3914
02:20:01,270 --> 02:19:59,200
way back to uh these i don't know what

3915
02:20:02,469 --> 02:20:01,280
the fifth or sixth century in china of

3916
02:20:03,830 --> 02:20:02,479
course they were just used for

3917
02:20:06,790 --> 02:20:03,840
entertainment back then they weren't

3918
02:20:09,270 --> 02:20:06,800
weaponized like as it was later and then

3919
02:20:11,429 --> 02:20:09,280
used as a kind of a stepping off point

3920
02:20:12,790 --> 02:20:11,439
for rocket technology but

3921
02:20:14,630 --> 02:20:12,800
you know we could get into a bunch of

3922
02:20:16,389 --> 02:20:14,640
stuff and talk about jack parsons and

3923
02:20:18,150 --> 02:20:16,399
solid fuel and

3924
02:20:19,510 --> 02:20:18,160
it dovetails into a whole nother show

3925
02:20:21,590 --> 02:20:19,520
that we're gonna have to have mica back

3926
02:20:22,950 --> 02:20:21,600
on but i wanted to kind of shift gears a

3927
02:20:24,230 --> 02:20:22,960
little bit here and

3928
02:20:26,710 --> 02:20:24,240
and you know we've been seeing more and

3929
02:20:29,270 --> 02:20:26,720
more talk of black eyed children

3930
02:20:32,070 --> 02:20:29,280
slenderman uh which seemed to be modern

3931
02:20:34,469 --> 02:20:32,080
sort of urban myths uh that are almost

3932
02:20:36,870 --> 02:20:34,479
manifesting themselves in in peculiar

3933
02:20:38,710 --> 02:20:36,880
ways but here's one uh wade wants to

3934
02:20:40,110 --> 02:20:38,720
know of course wade's been a long time

3935
02:20:42,150 --> 02:20:40,120
poster at

3936
02:20:45,030 --> 02:20:42,160
forum.theparacast.com he's just passed

3937
02:20:47,270 --> 02:20:45,040
the 4000 postmark i must say

3938
02:20:48,630 --> 02:20:47,280
he's up there in the in posts

3939
02:20:50,790 --> 02:20:48,640
he wants to know about the clown

3940
02:20:52,790 --> 02:20:50,800
phenomena is it more than just a bunch

3941
02:20:54,550 --> 02:20:52,800
of pranksters uh somebody creating a

3942
02:20:55,990 --> 02:20:54,560
cultural meme and people disguising

3943
02:20:58,710 --> 02:20:56,000
themselves because of their criminal

3944
02:21:00,790 --> 02:20:58,720
intent now i'm assuming he's talking

3945
02:21:02,389 --> 02:21:00,800
about these crazy clowns that are seen

3946
02:21:05,110 --> 02:21:02,399
driving around and peeking in windows

3947
02:21:07,429 --> 02:21:05,120
and not the current crop of republican

3948
02:21:08,230 --> 02:21:07,439
potential uh nominees for the presidency

3949
02:21:11,270 --> 02:21:08,240
of the

3950
02:21:13,830 --> 02:21:11,280
you're talking about clowns it's hard

3951
02:21:15,590 --> 02:21:13,840
not to to go in that direction well

3952
02:21:17,830 --> 02:21:15,600
before you continue let me just tell

3953
02:21:19,830 --> 02:21:17,840
mike if you haven't heard this i

3954
02:21:21,750 --> 02:21:19,840
paraphrased the

3955
02:21:23,750 --> 02:21:21,760
phrase from of charles fort's book a

3956
02:21:26,360 --> 02:21:23,760
procession of the damned and i call them

3957
02:21:28,710 --> 02:21:26,370
a procession of the dumb go ahead chris

3958
02:21:31,030 --> 02:21:28,720
[Laughter]

3959
02:21:33,190 --> 02:21:31,040
so yeah that was my uh my little sort of

3960
02:21:34,870 --> 02:21:33,200
op-ed opportunity there but then uh

3961
02:21:36,950 --> 02:21:34,880
flatwoods has another question too

3962
02:21:40,150 --> 02:21:36,960
that's uh the kind of dovetails from

3963
02:21:43,110 --> 02:21:40,160
that uh little sort of non-sequitur um

3964
02:21:44,550 --> 02:21:43,120
two words disclosure trump

3965
02:21:46,150 --> 02:21:44,560
first of all let's talk about the clowns

3966
02:21:48,150 --> 02:21:46,160
i mean what's up with these guys i mean

3967
02:21:49,990 --> 02:21:48,160
of course the clown is a modern

3968
02:21:52,389 --> 02:21:50,000
personification of the trickster

3969
02:21:53,510 --> 02:21:52,399
archetype but you know we don't want to

3970
02:21:55,270 --> 02:21:53,520
go there

3971
02:21:57,910 --> 02:21:55,280
what do you think i mean i've seen some

3972
02:22:00,469 --> 02:21:57,920
pretty spooky photographs online of

3973
02:22:03,750 --> 02:22:00,479
of clowns and cars and

3974
02:22:04,790 --> 02:22:03,760
uh it's just uh it's it's becoming more

3975
02:22:07,030 --> 02:22:04,800
and more

3976
02:22:09,110 --> 02:22:07,040
frequent uh people claiming that these

3977
02:22:11,110 --> 02:22:09,120
these really sinister clowns are lurking

3978
02:22:14,389 --> 02:22:11,120
about what do you make of that

3979
02:22:16,550 --> 02:22:14,399
well now 2015 certainly was a year with

3980
02:22:17,670 --> 02:22:16,560
a lot of uh you know these maniacal

3981
02:22:20,389 --> 02:22:17,680
clown

3982
02:22:22,870 --> 02:22:20,399
uh sightings every single instance of

3983
02:22:24,790 --> 02:22:22,880
course that i looked into and i looked

3984
02:22:25,910 --> 02:22:24,800
into everyone that i could find because

3985
02:22:27,110 --> 02:22:25,920
you know it

3986
02:22:28,710 --> 02:22:27,120
not that i attribute there being

3987
02:22:31,750 --> 02:22:28,720
anything paranormal or weird to it but

3988
02:22:33,750 --> 02:22:31,760
there is a bit of a history to

3989
02:22:35,429 --> 02:22:33,760
uh this and its possible link you know

3990
02:22:36,950 --> 02:22:35,439
the appearance of the the the weird the

3991
02:22:38,710 --> 02:22:36,960
phantom clown i think maybe is the term

3992
02:22:41,110 --> 02:22:38,720
that he's used uh lauren coleman is one

3993
02:22:42,230 --> 02:22:41,120
who's written about this uh jerry clark

3994
02:22:43,990 --> 02:22:42,240
may have written about it at some point

3995
02:22:45,750 --> 02:22:44,000
as well but i think that coleman was the

3996
02:22:48,630 --> 02:22:45,760
primary chronicler of this in terms of

3997
02:22:50,070 --> 02:22:48,640
modern fortiana um for that reason alone

3998
02:22:51,910 --> 02:22:50,080
i've followed it and also because it

3999
02:22:53,750 --> 02:22:51,920
makes for a humorous headline you know

4000
02:22:55,670 --> 02:22:53,760
on a podcast like mine

4001
02:22:57,110 --> 02:22:55,680
or this one for that matter uh but in

4002
02:22:58,710 --> 02:22:57,120
every instance that i looked into it was

4003
02:23:00,790 --> 02:22:58,720
attributed i think that a number of them

4004
02:23:02,630 --> 02:23:00,800
were happening around humboldt county i

4005
02:23:03,429 --> 02:23:02,640
think maybe in california and that there

4006
02:23:07,270 --> 02:23:03,439
had been

4007
02:23:09,110 --> 02:23:07,280
perpetrator in one of the instances some

4008
02:23:11,349 --> 02:23:09,120
of the photographs appearing online

4009
02:23:14,070 --> 02:23:11,359
strangely had actually been

4010
02:23:16,469 --> 02:23:14,080
a gentleman whose wife was doing a an

4011
02:23:18,870 --> 02:23:16,479
art photography project which involved

4012
02:23:20,630 --> 02:23:18,880
him dressed as a clown

4013
02:23:22,070 --> 02:23:20,640
you know posing in different playgrounds

4014
02:23:23,910 --> 02:23:22,080
and things and people had seen this and

4015
02:23:25,270 --> 02:23:23,920
thought it was rather strange

4016
02:23:26,389 --> 02:23:25,280
there were a couple of other instances i

4017
02:23:27,750 --> 02:23:26,399
think where there'd been people who were

4018
02:23:29,990 --> 02:23:27,760
just dressing up and standing around and

4019
02:23:31,429 --> 02:23:30,000
staring at people one of the incidents i

4020
02:23:33,110 --> 02:23:31,439
think had been identified as an

4021
02:23:34,630 --> 02:23:33,120
individual who had been inspired

4022
02:23:36,550 --> 02:23:34,640
somewhat by a character that appeared

4023
02:23:39,270 --> 02:23:36,560
recently on the um on the television

4024
02:23:41,110 --> 02:23:39,280
program american horror story so uh for

4025
02:23:43,190 --> 02:23:41,120
me what's the most interesting element

4026
02:23:45,270 --> 02:23:43,200
here is the recurring

4027
02:23:47,270 --> 02:23:45,280
interest that people have in this kind

4028
02:23:48,630 --> 02:23:47,280
of this weird phantom clown

4029
02:23:50,150 --> 02:23:48,640
thing rather than there being some sort

4030
02:23:51,910 --> 02:23:50,160
of a phenomena underlying it although

4031
02:23:54,230 --> 02:23:51,920
again you know as we talk about the way

4032
02:23:56,950 --> 02:23:54,240
that pop culture and mythology influence

4033
02:23:59,349 --> 02:23:56,960
the masses over time uh their the the

4034
02:24:02,230 --> 02:23:59,359
the clown is i think you know once again

4035
02:24:04,230 --> 02:24:02,240
recurring motif uh that goes back to the

4036
02:24:05,830 --> 02:24:04,240
idea like you already pointed out of the

4037
02:24:07,349 --> 02:24:05,840
trickster element you know the clown is

4038
02:24:10,070 --> 02:24:07,359
the trickster the clown whether it be

4039
02:24:11,510 --> 02:24:10,080
punch you know uh whether it be um in

4040
02:24:12,710 --> 02:24:11,520
any number of different clowns that have

4041
02:24:14,469 --> 02:24:12,720
appeared

4042
02:24:16,870 --> 02:24:14,479
my favorite is krusty the clown from the

4043
02:24:19,349 --> 02:24:16,880
symptoms we'll go into another kind of

4044
02:24:21,670 --> 02:24:19,359
clown in a moment with gene and chris

4045
02:24:28,340 --> 02:24:21,680
and micah hanks one more segment you're

4046
02:24:32,950 --> 02:24:29,429
[Applause]

4047
02:24:37,030 --> 02:24:32,960
thank you for listening to gcn

4048
02:24:38,870 --> 02:24:37,040
be sure to visit gcnlive.com today

4049
02:24:41,190 --> 02:24:38,880
graphic converter is the image

4050
02:24:44,070 --> 02:24:41,200
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use it to import images from digital

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4145
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hello this is john burroughs one of the

4146
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4147
02:28:57,190 --> 02:28:46,640
you're listening to the paracast the

4148
02:29:02,870 --> 02:29:00,389
oh the trickster is amongst us with

4149
02:29:05,349 --> 02:29:02,880
chris o'brien gene steinberg

4150
02:29:06,870 --> 02:29:05,359
micah hanks go ahead micah oh well i

4151
02:29:08,710 --> 02:29:06,880
mean you know again i think what else

4152
02:29:09,990 --> 02:29:08,720
can you say about clowns i mean people

4153
02:29:11,270 --> 02:29:10,000
are fascinated with them and they they

4154
02:29:13,190 --> 02:29:11,280
put on the suits but i don't think that

4155
02:29:15,910 --> 02:29:13,200
there's you know necessarily something

4156
02:29:17,670 --> 02:29:15,920
paranormal about it i think we also look

4157
02:29:20,469 --> 02:29:17,680
back at 2015 and we think about the

4158
02:29:23,270 --> 02:29:20,479
slenderman thing namely the two young

4159
02:29:24,630 --> 02:29:23,280
girls pre-teens or if memory serves who

4160
02:29:26,230 --> 02:29:24,640
attempted to murder a friend of theirs

4161
02:29:28,630 --> 02:29:26,240
because they wanted to be proxies of

4162
02:29:30,550 --> 02:29:28,640
slender to me there's obviously not an

4163
02:29:33,190 --> 02:29:30,560
actual paranormal entity i mean the

4164
02:29:34,550 --> 02:29:33,200
creator of the so-called slender man

4165
02:29:36,389 --> 02:29:34,560
came forward and talked about you know

4166
02:29:38,230 --> 02:29:36,399
the creation of the legend on

4167
02:29:39,670 --> 02:29:38,240
on uh you know social actually it wasn't

4168
02:29:42,150 --> 02:29:39,680
social media it was the creepypasta

4169
02:29:43,590 --> 02:29:42,160
website but it's fascinating to me that

4170
02:29:44,550 --> 02:29:43,600
creepy what

4171
02:29:47,110 --> 02:29:44,560
the website i think is called

4172
02:29:50,230 --> 02:29:47,120
creepypasta yeah and this has been the

4173
02:29:52,309 --> 02:29:50,240
origin of the of the man so we're going

4174
02:29:54,070 --> 02:29:52,319
to check what's on their noodle

4175
02:29:55,830 --> 02:29:54,080
yeah yeah exactly or at least what's on

4176
02:29:57,590 --> 02:29:55,840
mine at the moment i guess you know his

4177
02:29:59,429 --> 02:29:57,600
mind continues to cook and pouring over

4178
02:30:02,389 --> 02:29:59,439
these strange paranormal possibilities

4179
02:30:04,389 --> 02:30:02,399
but we see even in modern times even in

4180
02:30:05,590 --> 02:30:04,399
this in this very i think uh i'm not

4181
02:30:08,309 --> 02:30:05,600
trying to you know sound like we're

4182
02:30:10,070 --> 02:30:08,319
living in an undeniably post theocracy

4183
02:30:12,790 --> 02:30:10,080
but but i i do think that you know

4184
02:30:14,710 --> 02:30:12,800
people adhere far less to what they

4185
02:30:17,110 --> 02:30:14,720
perceive directly as myth and

4186
02:30:19,429 --> 02:30:17,120
spirituality you know and there's a

4187
02:30:22,150 --> 02:30:19,439
certain secularism to our culture here

4188
02:30:24,790 --> 02:30:22,160
in the west today and yet we seem to be

4189
02:30:27,030 --> 02:30:24,800
as susceptible today if not more so

4190
02:30:29,670 --> 02:30:27,040
thanks in part to social media and the

4191
02:30:32,309 --> 02:30:29,680
web we seem every bit as susceptible to

4192
02:30:33,830 --> 02:30:32,319
the power of myth as we ever were which

4193
02:30:35,830 --> 02:30:33,840
really interestingly kind of brings it

4194
02:30:38,070 --> 02:30:35,840
all full circle because we've seen it

4195
02:30:39,750 --> 02:30:38,080
with star wars we we question whether

4196
02:30:42,070 --> 02:30:39,760
science fiction influences belief in

4197
02:30:44,309 --> 02:30:42,080
things like ufos we question whether

4198
02:30:47,270 --> 02:30:44,319
trends in sci-fi and the regurgitation

4199
02:30:48,870 --> 02:30:47,280
of you yesteryear's sci-fi or maybe i

4200
02:30:50,309 --> 02:30:48,880
should say perhaps like the phoenix you

4201
02:30:53,590 --> 02:30:50,319
know burning itself and rising from the

4202
02:30:56,230 --> 02:30:53,600
ashes maybe the regeneration of sci-fi

4203
02:30:58,469 --> 02:30:56,240
motifs for a new era into new faces and

4204
02:31:00,389 --> 02:30:58,479
new new eras and new ways of

4205
02:31:02,550 --> 02:31:00,399
presentation you know we do seem to see

4206
02:31:04,469 --> 02:31:02,560
a similar component there with regard to

4207
02:31:06,150 --> 02:31:04,479
ufo research and everything and it seems

4208
02:31:08,230 --> 02:31:06,160
that we in terms of our fundamental

4209
02:31:09,750 --> 02:31:08,240
operation in terms of the archetypal

4210
02:31:11,349 --> 02:31:09,760
nature of our inner selves you know our

4211
02:31:13,110 --> 02:31:11,359
unconscious mind

4212
02:31:14,790 --> 02:31:13,120
there are a lot of ways that myth very

4213
02:31:17,349 --> 02:31:14,800
much still affects us and we seem to be

4214
02:31:19,750 --> 02:31:17,359
as much if not more susceptible to those

4215
02:31:21,429 --> 02:31:19,760
those kinds of influences which is both

4216
02:31:22,790 --> 02:31:21,439
disturbing but also fascinating and it

4217
02:31:23,910 --> 02:31:22,800
shows that perhaps the most that we can

4218
02:31:25,429 --> 02:31:23,920
hope to learn

4219
02:31:27,030 --> 02:31:25,439
about the interrelationship between

4220
02:31:29,510 --> 02:31:27,040
humankind and the phenomena that yet

4221
02:31:31,510 --> 02:31:29,520
eludes us is what role our mind and our

4222
02:31:33,750 --> 02:31:31,520
consciousness plays in all of that and

4223
02:31:35,750 --> 02:31:33,760
that's the big mystery we really still

4224
02:31:37,750 --> 02:31:35,760
don't have the full clear picture on

4225
02:31:39,830 --> 02:31:37,760
that you know what bothers me in general

4226
02:31:42,389 --> 02:31:39,840
about how things are going these days is

4227
02:31:45,590 --> 02:31:42,399
that so many things are spread in

4228
02:31:48,150 --> 02:31:45,600
popular culture shown to be lies but

4229
02:31:50,469 --> 02:31:48,160
surprisingly large numbers of people

4230
02:31:53,030 --> 02:31:50,479
believe those lies so how do you get

4231
02:31:55,670 --> 02:31:53,040
anywhere from here to there if

4232
02:31:56,630 --> 02:31:55,680
fundamentals of a basic truth about

4233
02:31:58,230 --> 02:31:56,640
anything

4234
02:31:59,670 --> 02:31:58,240
are ignored

4235
02:32:02,070 --> 02:31:59,680
that's a good question for example what

4236
02:32:02,950 --> 02:32:02,080
is it 30 40 percent of republicans

4237
02:32:05,190 --> 02:32:02,960
believe

4238
02:32:07,670 --> 02:32:05,200
that barack obama president of the

4239
02:32:10,150 --> 02:32:07,680
united states like him or not that he's

4240
02:32:11,190 --> 02:32:10,160
not an american that he lied about his

4241
02:32:12,950 --> 02:32:11,200
religion

4242
02:32:15,349 --> 02:32:12,960
well you know i'll say this if if the

4243
02:32:17,270 --> 02:32:15,359
congress deems the man to have been

4244
02:32:19,830 --> 02:32:17,280
eligible for the presidency the united

4245
02:32:21,389 --> 02:32:19,840
states i will rest with the decision

4246
02:32:23,270 --> 02:32:21,399
made by the congress in terms of the

4247
02:32:25,830 --> 02:32:23,280
constitutionality and the

4248
02:32:27,750 --> 02:32:25,840
legality of his presidency uh although

4249
02:32:29,510 --> 02:32:27,760
to me i guess that you know by now

4250
02:32:30,950 --> 02:32:29,520
that's fairly a non-issue there was a

4251
02:32:32,630 --> 02:32:30,960
time

4252
02:32:33,590 --> 02:32:32,640
it's funny because there was a big you

4253
02:32:35,190 --> 02:32:33,600
know there was a

4254
02:32:36,870 --> 02:32:35,200
huge stink made about that at the time

4255
02:32:38,630 --> 02:32:36,880
that it was actually in the news funny

4256
02:32:40,070 --> 02:32:38,640
enough the on the day coinciding with

4257
02:32:42,070 --> 02:32:40,080
the release of the long-form birth

4258
02:32:44,150 --> 02:32:42,080
certificates it was a uh what was called

4259
02:32:46,389 --> 02:32:44,160
a certificate of live birth uh that was

4260
02:32:48,550 --> 02:32:46,399
actually released for president obama on

4261
02:32:49,750 --> 02:32:48,560
that same day i guess i have to say

4262
02:32:52,230 --> 02:32:49,760
admittedly i'm going a little down the

4263
02:32:54,550 --> 02:32:52,240
conspiracy path right now but on that

4264
02:32:56,710 --> 02:32:54,560
same day the united states federal

4265
02:32:58,950 --> 02:32:56,720
reserve held their first ever other

4266
02:33:00,230 --> 02:32:58,960
public press conference uh about you

4267
02:33:01,510 --> 02:33:00,240
know the workings the fed and what what

4268
02:33:02,550 --> 02:33:01,520
you know what the projections what was

4269
02:33:04,870 --> 02:33:02,560
going on

4270
02:33:06,550 --> 02:33:04,880
public discussion of their minutes and

4271
02:33:08,469 --> 02:33:06,560
so i found that to be rather interesting

4272
02:33:10,469 --> 02:33:08,479
that topic a that day was obama

4273
02:33:12,389 --> 02:33:10,479
releasing this certificate of live birth

4274
02:33:14,230 --> 02:33:12,399
and all this whereas you know on that

4275
02:33:16,230 --> 02:33:14,240
same day there was this historic press

4276
02:33:17,830 --> 02:33:16,240
conference being held by the uh the

4277
02:33:19,190 --> 02:33:17,840
federal reserve that even the talk radio

4278
02:33:20,550 --> 02:33:19,200
hosts here in asheville were ignoring

4279
02:33:22,630 --> 02:33:20,560
and i was like guys you know have any of

4280
02:33:24,150 --> 02:33:22,640
you read the creature from jekyll island

4281
02:33:26,230 --> 02:33:24,160
have any of you ever doubted the

4282
02:33:27,429 --> 02:33:26,240
hijacking of the u.s monetary system

4283
02:33:28,950 --> 02:33:27,439
that you know anyone who thinks that

4284
02:33:30,150 --> 02:33:28,960
that's just a conspiracy theory it

4285
02:33:32,630 --> 02:33:30,160
doesn't have to look

4286
02:33:34,309 --> 02:33:32,640
doesn't have to be viewed as conspiracy

4287
02:33:36,309 --> 02:33:34,319
again think about it prior to the second

4288
02:33:38,309 --> 02:33:36,319
world war no one would have said oh what

4289
02:33:39,750 --> 02:33:38,319
you mean withholding of taxes throughout

4290
02:33:41,270 --> 02:33:39,760
the year and then we get a tax return no

4291
02:33:43,030 --> 02:33:41,280
one would have bought into that but it

4292
02:33:45,990 --> 02:33:43,040
was considered to be something that was

4293
02:33:47,830 --> 02:33:46,000
a worthwhile endeavor even a necessity

4294
02:33:50,309 --> 02:33:47,840
during the second world war in order to

4295
02:33:51,590 --> 02:33:50,319
aid the the war effort problem is you

4296
02:33:53,110 --> 02:33:51,600
know during that period of course when

4297
02:33:54,790 --> 02:33:53,120
you kept your money and paid your taxes

4298
02:33:56,309 --> 02:33:54,800
at the end of the year whatever you held

4299
02:33:57,510 --> 02:33:56,319
you could keep in your bank or in a cd

4300
02:33:58,630 --> 02:33:57,520
or whatever and you could you know you

4301
02:33:59,910 --> 02:33:58,640
could accrue interest on it throughout

4302
02:34:01,990 --> 02:33:59,920
the year you can't do that anymore can

4303
02:34:03,429 --> 02:34:02,000
you notice we never repealed that we

4304
02:34:05,110 --> 02:34:03,439
still have a progressive income tax

4305
02:34:06,230 --> 02:34:05,120
where also you know that inform that the

4306
02:34:07,990 --> 02:34:06,240
money is withheld from you throughout

4307
02:34:08,870 --> 02:34:08,000
the year you don't get it back until the

4308
02:34:10,150 --> 02:34:08,880
end of the year unless you're

4309
02:34:12,950 --> 02:34:10,160
self-employed like me but i still have

4310
02:34:14,550 --> 02:34:12,960
to pay a fairly exorbitant rate nobody

4311
02:34:15,910 --> 02:34:14,560
seems to question these things forgotten

4312
02:34:17,670 --> 02:34:15,920
from memory and nobody wants to pay

4313
02:34:18,870 --> 02:34:17,680
attention to it even when the fed goes

4314
02:34:19,910 --> 02:34:18,880
and says for the first time in history

4315
02:34:21,510 --> 02:34:19,920
we're going to make our private

4316
02:34:23,429 --> 02:34:21,520
decisions somewhat public during a press

4317
02:34:25,990 --> 02:34:23,439
release you know i wanted to add one

4318
02:34:29,110 --> 02:34:26,000
thing about the birther controversy

4319
02:34:31,190 --> 02:34:29,120
nobody complains about ted cruz who was

4320
02:34:33,510 --> 02:34:31,200
born in canada

4321
02:34:35,110 --> 02:34:33,520
of a mother who was born in america

4322
02:34:36,950 --> 02:34:35,120
therefore

4323
02:34:37,830 --> 02:34:36,960
supposedly meeting the requirement of

4324
02:34:40,550 --> 02:34:37,840
being

4325
02:34:43,349 --> 02:34:40,560
a natural-born citizen because he's an

4326
02:34:45,190 --> 02:34:43,359
american by virtue of his mother being

4327
02:34:47,510 --> 02:34:45,200
someone who was born here his father was

4328
02:34:50,630 --> 02:34:47,520
born in cuba i think

4329
02:34:53,110 --> 02:34:50,640
now even if barack obama's father

4330
02:34:55,830 --> 02:34:53,120
born in kenya and even if barack obama

4331
02:34:57,990 --> 02:34:55,840
was born in kenya and not in america

4332
02:35:01,110 --> 02:34:58,000
because his mother

4333
02:35:03,429 --> 02:35:01,120
was an american citizen born in america

4334
02:35:05,030 --> 02:35:03,439
the same logic would hold

4335
02:35:07,429 --> 02:35:05,040
yeah i think it was the same way for

4336
02:35:10,469 --> 02:35:07,439
john mccain if memory serves right but

4337
02:35:12,550 --> 02:35:10,479
he was born on u.s military installation

4338
02:35:13,830 --> 02:35:12,560
that's right that's different here we're

4339
02:35:16,469 --> 02:35:13,840
talking about

4340
02:35:18,469 --> 02:35:16,479
one person totally accepted

4341
02:35:19,429 --> 02:35:18,479
who was not born in this country but his

4342
02:35:21,510 --> 02:35:19,439
mother

4343
02:35:23,270 --> 02:35:21,520
was born in america

4344
02:35:25,830 --> 02:35:23,280
right and therefore he's a citizen by

4345
02:35:27,510 --> 02:35:25,840
virtue of that

4346
02:35:29,590 --> 02:35:27,520
with obama

4347
02:35:31,750 --> 02:35:29,600
he was born in hawaii but even if the

4348
02:35:33,190 --> 02:35:31,760
theory was true it would be the same

4349
02:35:34,950 --> 02:35:33,200
thing but

4350
02:35:36,630 --> 02:35:34,960
little cognitive dissonance going on

4351
02:35:38,469 --> 02:35:36,640
there oh yeah they don't even talk about

4352
02:35:39,750 --> 02:35:38,479
anymore but the birth their conspiracy

4353
02:35:41,510 --> 02:35:39,760
still exists

4354
02:35:42,790 --> 02:35:41,520
we got a minute left

4355
02:35:46,469 --> 02:35:42,800
oh wow

4356
02:35:47,349 --> 02:35:46,479
okay a one word answer disclosure trump

4357
02:35:48,870 --> 02:35:47,359
no

4358
02:35:51,110 --> 02:35:48,880
that's my word there's my one word

4359
02:35:54,950 --> 02:35:51,120
response no

4360
02:35:56,550 --> 02:35:54,960
take that to mean whatever you may

4361
02:35:59,110 --> 02:35:56,560
oh i don't want to disclose anything

4362
02:36:01,110 --> 02:35:59,120
about trump i'm i know what you mean i'm

4363
02:36:02,469 --> 02:36:01,120
just being silly

4364
02:36:03,830 --> 02:36:02,479
go ahead and expose this here too if you

4365
02:36:06,830 --> 02:36:03,840
would though yeah maybe he'll put a

4366
02:36:11,830 --> 02:36:06,840
bounty of a billion dollars on slam dunk

4367
02:36:14,070 --> 02:36:11,840
data right yeah we one would hope yeah

4368
02:36:16,070 --> 02:36:14,080
micah you're always uh

4369
02:36:17,750 --> 02:36:16,080
it's so great to have you on you're one

4370
02:36:19,030 --> 02:36:17,760
of my all-time favorite guests to have

4371
02:36:21,190 --> 02:36:19,040
on the show and

4372
02:36:23,270 --> 02:36:21,200
much luck in 2016 with the grayling

4373
02:36:25,270 --> 02:36:23,280
report and all your projects and

4374
02:36:26,469 --> 02:36:25,280
and uh the musical uh career and

4375
02:36:28,150 --> 02:36:26,479
everything and

4376
02:36:29,830 --> 02:36:28,160
we look forward to having you back

4377
02:36:31,429 --> 02:36:29,840
i look forward as always to returning

4378
02:36:34,469 --> 02:36:31,439
you guys are wonderful it's always good

4379
02:36:36,870 --> 02:36:34,479
to talk and great to wrap up 2015 good

4380
02:36:38,550 --> 02:36:36,880
company gents keep up the good work okay

4381
02:36:41,190 --> 02:36:38,560
if our listeners need to get in touch

4382
02:36:43,270 --> 02:36:41,200
with you where do they go ah two places

4383
02:36:46,389 --> 02:36:43,280
micah hanks.com and also

4384
02:36:48,230 --> 02:36:46,399
grayleyandreport.com info micahanks.com

4385
02:36:50,070 --> 02:36:48,240
is the email to reach me

4386
02:36:51,990 --> 02:36:50,080
you can find us on twitter where we're

4387
02:36:54,150 --> 02:36:52,000
known as the powercast look for the

4388
02:36:56,070 --> 02:36:54,160
powercast on twitter if you follow

4389
02:36:57,110 --> 02:36:56,080
facebook which i just think is a messy

4390
02:36:59,349 --> 02:36:57,120
place

4391
02:37:02,309 --> 02:36:59,359
my wife spends lots of time in facebook

4392
02:37:04,150 --> 02:37:02,319
and the interface is from you know where

4393
02:37:07,349 --> 02:37:04,160
in any case we have two power cast fan

4394
02:37:09,429 --> 02:37:07,359
clubs and because of the peculiarities

4395
02:37:12,630 --> 02:37:09,439
of facebook if we wanted to merge them

4396
02:37:15,110 --> 02:37:12,640
into one we have to kill the contents

4397
02:37:17,349 --> 02:37:15,120
of the other can you imagine that it's

4398
02:37:20,150 --> 02:37:17,359
just foolish i even sent a tech support

4399
02:37:21,590 --> 02:37:20,160
request to facebook about displaying the

4400
02:37:22,389 --> 02:37:21,600
wrong icon

4401
02:37:24,070 --> 02:37:22,399
on

4402
02:37:25,590 --> 02:37:24,080
listings from our other radio show the

4403
02:37:27,670 --> 02:37:25,600
tech night out live

4404
02:37:29,590 --> 02:37:27,680
and they never bothered to respond maybe

4405
02:37:31,510 --> 02:37:29,600
they're off for a couple of years

4406
02:37:33,830 --> 02:37:31,520
because they stayed over because of the

4407
02:37:35,910 --> 02:37:33,840
holidays we have that other special

4408
02:37:38,710 --> 02:37:35,920
feature of the show called the powercast

4409
02:37:42,309 --> 02:37:38,720
plus go to plus.powercast.com

4410
02:37:47,110 --> 02:37:44,550
it's where you subscribe and get the

4411
02:37:50,150 --> 02:37:47,120
ad-free version of this show we ditch 41

4412
02:37:52,230 --> 02:37:50,160
minutes of network commercials we offer

4413
02:37:55,030 --> 02:37:52,240
the after the powercast

4414
02:37:57,190 --> 02:37:55,040
podcast exclusive to

4415
02:38:00,150 --> 02:37:57,200
powercastplus subscribers

4416
02:38:03,030 --> 02:38:00,160
it's wrap up it's color commentary it's

4417
02:38:04,630 --> 02:38:03,040
special interviews we never know

4418
02:38:06,790 --> 02:38:04,640
from one show to the next what's going

4419
02:38:08,389 --> 02:38:06,800
to happen and sometimes it gets

4420
02:38:10,469 --> 02:38:08,399
pretty wild

4421
02:38:12,870 --> 02:38:10,479
and pretty woolly especially when one or

4422
02:38:14,870 --> 02:38:12,880
both of us is a little bit frustrated

4423
02:38:16,870 --> 02:38:14,880
about the state of anything we'll

4424
02:38:18,790 --> 02:38:16,880
express it there for long term

4425
02:38:20,070 --> 02:38:18,800
subscriptions we still have the free

4426
02:38:21,590 --> 02:38:20,080
ebooks

4427
02:38:22,750 --> 02:38:21,600
so check it out

4428
02:38:25,790 --> 02:38:22,760
go to

4429
02:38:28,309 --> 02:38:25,800
plus.powercast.com once again that's

4430
02:38:29,190 --> 02:38:28,319
plus.powercast.com subscribe month to

4431
02:38:32,710 --> 02:38:29,200
month

4432
02:38:34,070 --> 02:38:32,720
subscribe for a year five years or

4433
02:38:36,630 --> 02:38:34,080
lifetime

4434
02:38:38,550 --> 02:38:36,640
so when i'm walking on the cane and in

4435
02:38:41,190 --> 02:38:38,560
the wheelchair

4436
02:38:42,389 --> 02:38:41,200
and can't keep up we'll still be here

4437
02:38:43,429 --> 02:38:42,399
somehow

4438
02:38:45,110 --> 02:38:43,439
some way

4439
02:38:52,570 --> 02:38:45,120
micah hanks thanks for joining us on the

4440
02:38:52,580 --> 02:38:55,990
[Music]

4441
02:39:01,590 --> 02:38:58,870
powercast featuring jean steinberg and

4442
02:39:04,550 --> 02:39:01,600
christopher o'brien is a copyrighted

4443
02:39:06,309 --> 02:39:04,560
presentation of making the impossible

4444
02:39:10,469 --> 02:39:06,319
incorporated